Originally posted by PawnokeyholeIf you're not sure that what I'm saying is right, then test my words with the Bible as it says we should do. Did you read the part I said on Romans and the word 'pornea'. I would appreciate being corrected, but show me by Scripture.
Aren't you just assuming that kissing, etc. is impure outside of marriage? Why? Plenty of people find it extremely fulfilling. This is a matter of fact, not debate.
Maybe you're radically mistaken. Maybe you think you are being pure but you aren't really. Isn't that just possible? Maybe those who kiss etc. outside of wedlock are just as pure as y ...[text shortened]... bles favourable, flattering comparisons to others? Pride masquerading as self-ascribed virtue?
Originally posted by SiversmithWhere does the bible say you can only have sex if you are married?
God knows her/him through and through, much better than you. Trust Him, He won't make a mistake.
Also, God made man and woman for each other, He won't deprive you of a wife. He also created sex, but only to be used inside of marriage. He knows the desires of the flesh. Psalm 37:4. And God won't let you grow old before He gives you the girl/boy meant f ...[text shortened]... ive it.
Better not experiment with girls and end up not having much to give to your real wife.
Sure, there are biblical prohibitions against being sexually loose; but a lot of these were clearly not meant to be meant to hold in all places and in all times, but to be interpreted in the context of a letter from one person (e.g., Paul) to a particular group (e.g., the Romans).
You are supplying the unspoken premise that any sexual behaviour outside of marriage, ever in any context, constitutes sexual looseness. Not the bible, not God, but you, or some group of people around you whose criteria for purity you have thoughtlessly absorbed.
Originally posted by SiversmithThe problem with the bible is that it requires interpretation: It just isn't explicit enough. For example, it doesn't say, "Don't kiss outside of marriage, or ye shall be consigned to the eternal hellfire". Instead, it contains St. Paul, here and there, railing against sexual impropriety, broadly defined, but only with reference to a particular group of people, and at a particular time. He didn't have you in mind particularly. You are choosing a particular interpretation; it is not choosing itself.
If you're not sure that what I'm saying is right, then test my words with the Bible as it says we should do. Did you read the part I said on Romans and the word 'pornea'. I would appreciate being corrected, but show me by Scripture.
You show ME the part of scripture that claims it is wrong to snog outside of marriage.
Originally posted by SiversmithHow can you say that when you have absolutely no knowledge of whether or not that's a consideration? I can tell you categorically that experimenting with girls as you so clinically put it, serves to improve your knowledge, depth and ability in soooo many ways (not just physical but emotionally and mentally as well), so that you have MORE to give to your wife, not less.
God knows her/him through and through, much better than you. Trust Him, He won't make a mistake.
Also, God made man and woman for each other, He won't deprive you of a wife. He also created sex, but only to be used inside of marriage. He knows the desires of the flesh. Psalm 37:4. And God won't let you grow old before He gives you the girl/boy meant f ...[text shortened]... ive it.
Better not experiment with girls and end up not having much to give to your real wife.
God supposedly gave you the tools to learn for yourself. You are not gifted with instant knowledge of relationships and how to conduct them and the mere fact that you asked the question "is dating fine?" in the first place shows you have a desire to know certain things. And yet there are other things which you refuse to acknowledge as necessary for the process of a relationship. I ask you how can you make such decisions without first learning about the subject you wish to study?
Originally posted by Starrmanmy advice go off and be a monk 😀
How can you say that when you have absolutely no knowledge of whether or not that's a consideration? I can tell you categorically that experimenting with girls as you so clinically put it, serves to improve your knowledge, depth and ability in soooo many ways (not just physical but emotionally and mentally as well), so that you have MORE to give to your w ...[text shortened]... you how can you make such decisions without first learning about the subject you wish to study?
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeThe Bible is very explicit. It doesn't always need interpretation, and it's there for all to understand. Here are a few very clear texts:
The problem with the bible is that it requires interpretation: It just isn't explicit enough. For example, it doesn't say, "Don't kiss outside of marriage, or ye shall be consigned to the eternal hellfire". Instead, it contains St. Paul, here and there, railing against sexual impropriety, broadly defined, but only with reference to a particular gro ...[text shortened]... elf.
You show ME the part of scripture that claims it is wrong to snog outside of marriage.
Mathew 15:19, 'For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.'
Jesus said this, for everybody.
Mark 7:21, 'For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, '
Acts 15:20, 'Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.' This was a letter addressed to all gentile christians.
1 Corinthians 6:18, 'Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.'
Ephesians 5:3, 'But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.'
Colossains 3:5, 'Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.'
1 Thessalonians 4:3, 'It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;'
If you still believe that it's fine to have sex before marriage, then you obviously do not believe the Bible.
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeLOL 🙂
I would strongly condemn jumping from bed to bed constantly. You could fall down, wear out the beds, or become short of breath. I haven't done it since I was three.
If "anything goes" between consenting adults, why hold that two people in a "relationship" (but not married) must be "faithful" to each other?
Originally posted by dj2beckerDude. I'm as human as the next homo-sapien.
The heart of man is deceiptful above all things... I suppose you have never heard of your heart being refered to as the core of your spiritual being...The physical heart sure pumps blood... But if you don't have a spiritual heart I suppose you are not human...
BUT... my heart is an organ which pumps blood around my body.
Every emotion I have is but a chemical reaction in my brain.
I put it to you though: If your emotions are produced in your heart...you are not human!
1 edit
Originally posted by SiversmithLook Siversmith,
The Bible is very explicit. It doesn't always need interpretation, and it's there for all to understand. Here are a few very clear texts:
Mathew 15:19, 'For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, ...[text shortened]... x before marriage, then you obviously do not believe the Bible.
I don't mean to be unkind, but you are clearly having problems
(a) reading my post, and
(b) reading the bible.
All the bible quotes you list refer to nonspecific injunctions against sexual immorality. However, the Bible, as I also pointed out, usually does not specify what *constitutes* sexual immortality. (The exception would be prohibitions against homosexuality; but even these should be seen as contextual prohibitions, not universal prohibitions.)
I mean, it just doesn't most of the time. And, most embarrassingly, it doesn't do so in ALL the quotes you list. This is obvious to anyone who can read and understand English.
Therefore, it is a matter of interpretation for the reader what constitutes the sexual morality referred to in these quotes.
Does it mean snogging? Sensual massage? Sex? Take your pick, depending on YOUR OWN interpretation.
Is the desire to kiss a pretty girl an "evil desire"? Is all sexual desire "lust"? You seem to think so. I think you are woefully mistaken.
Yes, some of your chosen quotes rail against adultery. But snogging, sensual massage, and sex before marriage are not adultery. If you think they are, read the definition of adultery in the dictionary.
My reading, for what it's worth, is that these texts are warning against uncontrolled, chaotic sexuality, not against sexuality per se. I think my interpretation is a lot more plausible that your one. We can debate this. However, the point is: the Bible itself doesn't resolve the issue. You are deluding yourself if you think no interpretation is needed.
Now, to repeat my request, which you ignored
"You show me the part of scripture that says it is wrong to snog outside of marriage." (To be clear, I mean, *when one is unmarried*)
This is because you claim are refusing to snog because of what the Bible says.
Incidentally, there is a quote in the Bible: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." How do you interpret the meaning of this statement? As far as I can see, this statement IS pretty unambiguous, if interpreted as a moral prohibition that is supposed to apply generally. It means "kill witches whenever possible".
Do you agree? Do you dare to question God's inerrant word?
Let me ask you a question Silver, do you believe what it says in the bible wholeheartedly without reservation?
If so, has it occurred to you that the many many translations, re-writes, and altercations made to it over the years may actually have altered it's meaning? Humans make mistakes, what's to say that the bible you believe so steadfastly in isn't printed incorrectly?
1 Cor 6:15, 'You know that your bodies are parts of the body of Christ. Shall I take a part of Christ's body and make it part of the body of prostitute? Impossible! Or perhaps you don't know that the man who joins his body to a prostitute becomes physically one with her?' There is no reference to marriage here. There is no difference between a girl sleeping with her boyfriend or just with anybody. It is still an act of sex outside of marriage. Please also go to the following link: http://www.aramnaharaim.org/sexual_immorality.htm
2 edits
Originally posted by SiversmithAs far as I can read, there is no reference to snogging or sex before marriage here either.
1 Cor 6:15, 'You know that your bodies are parts of the body of Christ. Shall I take a part of Christ's body and make it part of the body of prostitute? Impossible! Or perhaps you don't know that the man who joins his body to a prosti ...[text shortened]... lowing link: http://www.aramnaharaim.org/sexual_immorality.htm
I think there is a very big moral difference between paying a prostitute for sex and
(a) snogging a woman;
(b) two unmarried people engaging in sex without one paying the other for it.
Except perhaps in your mind.
You don't seem to be engaging with the points made before. Your new Bible quote doesn't resolve anything.
Please try to address the points raised and answer the questions asked.
Originally posted by SiversmithThis reference mentions neither marriage nor any other form of relationship. What it does mention is prostitution, ie: Paying a woman for sex, specifically a woman who has sex for a living. Surely what is meant here isn't sex out of marriage being a sin, but prostitution and 'laying' with prostitutes. I fail to see how this backs up your argument.
1 Cor 6:15, 'You know that your bodies are parts of the body of Christ. Shall I take a part of Christ's body and make it part of the body of prostitute? Impossible! Or perhaps you don't know that the man who joins his body to a prostitute becomes physically one with her?' There is no reference to marriage here. There is no difference between a girl sl ...[text shortened]... age. Please also go to the following link: http://www.aramnaharaim.org/sexual_immorality.htm