Democrats Killing Democracy in the US

@AverageJoe1 said
Well, try to understand, Mr liberal no-border (country) Marauder

I don’t view immigrants as subhuman, nor do I oppose legal immigration. The real question is whether a nation has the right to control the scale, pace, and character of immigration in order to preserve social cohesion, public safety, and its civic culture. (I know you hate that word culture.)
America ha ...[text shortened]... thing that I just wrote, when you have nothing that you can deny regarding what I have just written.

This administration is actively discouraging even legal immigration:

"The cost of applying for American citizenship could nearly double under a new Trump administration proposal to hike fees as much as 80% and to stop discounting or waiving fees for the very poor."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-proposal-raises-citizenship-naturalization-fees-rcna351362

@no1marauder said
There's not much I disagree with there except the word "culture". Also your view of history is rather incorrect; there was no requirement that immigrants speak English or learn it for at least the first 150 years of the country's existence. A friend pf mine's grandmother came over from Poland in the 1930s and didn't speak any English when I met her in the late 1960s.

I ...[text shortened]... f productive workers and aggressively discouraging immigration are economically and socially stupid.

You have shifted from immigration to culture, typical maneuvering. When I say culture, I’m not talking about race or ethnicity. . I’m talking about, a set of values: respect for government, individual liberty, free speech, equality , private property, voluntary association, and owing allegiance to the United States.
Of course people can keep their language, religion, food, traditions, and customs. The Irish, Italians, Poles, Jews, Germans, and countless others did exactly that. But they also gradually became Americans. I don’t see any contradiction between preserving parts of one’s heritage and embracing a common national identity. why would you imply it
I didn’t say requirement that immigrants learn English. My point was it is desirable. Your friend’s Polish grandmother may not have spoken much English, but her children and grandchildren almost certainly did, and they became part of American society while still retaining pride in polish heritage.
You say a country doesn’t have a culture. I disagree. If countries don’t have cultures, then why can people distinguish American culture from French, Japanese, Mexican, or British culture? Nations are obviously more than geographic coordinates and tax systems.
What is your problem, man. I’m told Iranians kill their daughters for looking at a boy. They are not like us. Chickens and pigs might not get along in a barnyard. What is your endgame. I think I know, butyou rel us.

@no1marauder said
This administration is actively discouraging even legal immigration:

"The cost of applying for American citizenship could nearly double under a new Trump administration proposal to hike fees as much as 80% and to stop discounting or waiving fees for the very poor."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-proposal-raises-citizenship-naturalization-fees-rcna351362

You prove my point.
It is like a rancher opening a gate to let his favorite cows in and THEY ALL COME THROUGH. Picture the rancher (trump). “””What in the hell?!?? Everyone scramble, how we gonna fix this. Get someone to the trailhead to stop their sending more cows into the pasture!!!! Meanwhile be fixing the gate! And turn this overload of cows around, back into the pasture!”
What Is Trump To Do? Exactly.

Logic, common sense,rationale……you have neither.

“Dam, boss…..one of the cows has hoof-and-mouth disease!,””

@AverageJoe1 said
You prove my point.
It is like a rancher opening a gate to let his favorite cows in and THEY ALL COME THROUGH. Picture the rancher (trump). “””What in the hell?!?? Everyone scramble, how we gonna fix this. Get someone to the trailhead to stop their sending more cows into the pasture!!!! Meanwhile be fixing the gate! And turn this overload of cows around, ba ...[text shortened]... on sense,rationale……you have neither.

“Dam, boss…..one of the cows has hoof-and-mouth disease!,””

For reasons already explained to you, the US needs more immigration not less.

Trump's policies discouraging it are bad for the country and the longer they last the more harm they will do.

@AverageJoe1 said
You have shifted from immigration to culture, typical maneuvering. When I say culture, I’m not talking about race or ethnicity. . I’m talking about, a set of values: respect for government, individual liberty, free speech, equality , private property, voluntary association, and owing allegiance to the United States.
Of course people can keep their language, religion, ...[text shortened]... pigs might not get along in a barnyard. What is your endgame. I think I know, butyou rel us.

Assuming everyone in this or any other country think exactly the same is remarkably stupid.

When you talk about "culture" in other countries, what you usually mean is ignorant, bigoted stereotypes dancing around in your brain. Why we should reject immigrants from specific countries based on such foolish beliefs is rather unclear to me.

To be clear, I don't think there is any such thing as an "American culture". Instead, we have many with significant differences across regions, urban and other areas, ethnicities and on and on. If you travelled much at all you'd know this; interactions in New York City are quite a bit different than in Texas, Florida or Ohio (all places I've been to in the last year). Even Western New York State was considerably different than upstate near New England.

@AverageJoe1 said
You have shifted from immigration to culture, typical maneuvering. When I say culture, I’m not talking about race or ethnicity. . I’m talking about, a set of values: respect for government, individual liberty, free speech, equality , private property, voluntary association, and owing allegiance to the United States.
Of course people can keep their language, religion, ...[text shortened]... pigs might not get along in a barnyard. What is your endgame. I think I know, butyou rel us.

And you foolishly assume these immigrants won't assimilate, based on nothing but racial hate. All of these other cultures you speak glowingly about were basically white. Mexicans and people from SW Asia look different, usually brown. You would have them treated as less than. I've worked with Mexicans before and they are some of the hardest working people I've ever seen. I've been in parks here in the afternoons on a weekend, and met several Muslim families out enjoying a meal with their families, and these people love America. They should all have a path to citizenship at the very least. You would just kick them to the curb for imagined slights because you don't like any of them. And you haven't taken the time to listen to them either. All you can say (falsely) is that they are here to destroy our "way of life". All because they're not your idea of American, i.e. not white. Chickens and pigs?? Really?? It's this kind of BS that I'm always calling you out on. It's disgusting.

@no1marauder said
There's not much I disagree with there except the word "culture". Also your view of history is rather incorrect; there was no requirement that immigrants speak English or learn it for at least the first 150 years of the country's existence. A friend pf mine's grandmother came over from Poland in the 1930s and didn't speak any English when I met her in the late 1960s.

I ...[text shortened]... f productive workers and aggressively discouraging immigration are economically and socially stupid.

Nah, the same thing was said when we conservatives ended slavery

@Mott-The-Hoople said
Nah, the same thing was said when we conservatives ended slavery

You "conservatives" are still flying CSA flags and bitching and moaning if statutes of war criminals like Nathan Bedford Forrest are taken down.

@no1marauder said
For reasons already explained to you, the US needs more immigration not less.

Trump's policies discouraging it are bad for the country and the longer they last the more harm they will do.

Everyone in the USA is quite aware that we need immigrants. Just yesterday, an artilce that young people are 'waiting to have children',,,,,suggesting lesser population, so yes, we need to go out searching for qualified foreigners to enter our country** to fill that void. Everyone on this Forum knows that . Why say that? And why ignore the common sense of my post?

**. We pick them, they do not pick us.

@Suzianne said
And you foolishly assume these immigrants won't assimilate, based on nothing but racial hate. All of these other cultures you speak glowingly about were basically white. Mexicans and people from SW Asia look different, usually brown. You would have them treated as less than. I've worked with Mexicans before and they are some of the hardest wor ...[text shortened]... ens and pigs?? Really?? It's this kind of BS that I'm always calling you out on. It's disgusting.

'They should all have a path to citizenship??????????????????????????????????

No, they should not.

Further, they should go back and get in line. Some have been in line for years and have acted properly as you suggest. Do you think that they are the people that we are concerned about? Your news sources are not telling you of the illegal status of murderers because thtey want to impeach Trump., to put it bluntly. Your people want some REALLY bad people in office like the Platner. He would abuse you yourself. He has Nazi tendencies, write another post. The Dariliza person wants there to be no prisons. So if you and I have a croissant togther and you say 'we should abolish prisons'. Can you tell me that wwe should abolish prisokns, what would be your explanatin, and how should I react? Suzianne?

And I cant let this go without the nuisance of your Muslims with their wailing from the minarets, FIVE times a day, as I sit in that same park with the Mexicans plahing with my grandchildren. Suzianne??||

@AverageJoe1 said
'They should all have a path to citizenship??????????????????????????????????

No, they should not.

Further, they should go back and get in line. Some have been in line for years and have acted properly as you suggest. Do you think that they are the people that we are concerned about? Your news sources are not telling you of the illegal status of murderers because t ...[text shortened]... mes a day, as I sit in that same park with the Mexicans plahing with my grandchildren. Suzianne??||

You are a fantasist.

@no1marauder said
Assuming everyone in this or any other country think exactly the same is remarkably stupid.

When you talk about "culture" in other countries, what you usually mean is ignorant, bigoted stereotypes dancing around in your brain. Why we should reject immigrants from specific countries based on such foolish beliefs is rather unclear to me.

To be clear, I don't think the ...[text shortened]... he last year). Even Western New York State was considerably different than upstate near New England.

??How can you say, on the one hand, that there is no single American culture, and on the other hand that concerns about cultural compatibility are just stereotypes and prejudice. geez. 2 separate arguments.
New York is different from Texas, and both are different from rural Appalachia or Miami. You would agree that diversity within a culture doesn't mean there is no broader national culture. And you would agree that most Americans share in beliefs of constitutional government, liberty, equality, freedom of speech, private property all of that… Those values are not universal around the world. We always recognize cultural differences, but it is not bigotry it simply observing reality. In plain english, common sense.
Successful immigration depends on the foreigners embracing the core civic values that make us work. I fully believe you want them to come here (legally or not legally) and act like they all act in their homelands. I think not.
If I had to say a difference in our two positions it would be that I focus on civic culture and assimilation, and you focus on ethnicity or nationality. I subscribe to 'when in Rome, do as the Romans'. I gather that you do not? Wail all they want to from the minarets?????

@Suzianne said
And you foolishly assume these immigrants won't assimilate, based on nothing but racial hate. All of these other cultures you speak glowingly about were basically white. Mexicans and people from SW Asia look different, usually brown. You would have them treated as less than. I've worked with Mexicans before and they are some of the hardest wor ...[text shortened]... ens and pigs?? Really?? It's this kind of BS that I'm always calling you out on. It's disgusting.

See my post about 6 clicks down to Maruder, beginningn with 'how can you say'

@AverageJoe1 said
??How can you say, on the one hand, that there is no single American culture, and on the other hand that concerns about cultural compatibility are just stereotypes and prejudice. geez. 2 separate arguments.
New York is different from Texas, and both are different from rural Appalachia or Miami. You would agree that diversity within a culture doesn't mean there i ...[text shortened]... n Rome, do as the Romans'. I gather that you do not? Wail all they want to from the minarets?????

I don't consider it any of mine or your FB what other people think or do in their personal lives.

@no1marauder said
I don't consider it any of mine or your FB what other people think or do in their personal lives.

My Lord in heaven. This is your response to my well thought outpost above.?
We have readers you know. I wrote a nice post in response to your post prior to that, and you write this back. I would think that serious members of the forum would be interested to know your comment, your response to the issues that I put forth.
Is that it. ??? Off now to other environs? What are you afraid of? Geez