Dershowitz: democrats cannot impeach Trump

@no1marauder said
"..... and disqualification to hold any office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States....."

US Constitution, Article I, Section 3.

Can Trump be impeached without proving intent?
Lots of people have incited violence against Trump and were never held accountable. Nobody wanted to hold Trump accountable for his vague statements until it resulted in violence.

Is inciting violence only punishable if it results in violence? Can people incite violence with impunity until violence actually happens?

@metal-brain said
Can Trump be impeached without proving intent?
Lots of people have incited violence against Trump and were never held accountable. Nobody wanted to hold Trump accountable for his vague statements until it resulted in violence.

Is inciting violence only punishable if it results in violence? Can people incite violence with impunity until violence actually happens?

The argument would be that Trump incited violence specifically aimed at disrupting and preventing Congress' certification of the Electoral College vote, a Constitionally mandated procedure that finalized his defeat. That would certainly seem to be misconduct that would fall under the broad terms "High Crimes and Misdemeanors."

@metal-brain said
Madonna (Democrat): "Let's blow up the white house!"
Peter Fonda (Democrat): "Lock 10 year old Barren Trump in a cage with child molesters."
Johnny Depp (Democrat): "We need another John Wilks Booth!"
Tom Arnold (Democrat): "I fantasize about standing over Donald Trump Jr.'s dead body!"
Kathy Griffith (Democrat): *Holds up a bloody, decapitated head of Donald Trump*
...[text shortened]... ial hopeful): "I dream of punching Trump in the face."

Are any of those people inciting violence?

Did anyone immediately leave the area where such comments were made and engage in violent, illegal behavior meant to specifically benefit the speaker? If not, then the cases are dissimilar.

@metal-brain said
Can Trump be impeached without proving intent?
Lots of people have incited violence against Trump and were never held accountable. Nobody wanted to hold Trump accountable for his vague statements until it resulted in violence.

Is inciting violence only punishable if it results in violence? Can people incite violence with impunity until violence actually happens?

Impeachment is not subject to the same rules as criminal trials.

Generally, incendiary speech cannot be punished unless "the speech is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and it is likely to incite or produce such action." https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brandenburg_test

@no1marauder said
Did anyone immediately leave the area where such comments were made and engage in violent, illegal behavior meant to specifically benefit the speaker? If not, then the cases are dissimilar.

So it isn't inciting violence unless it results in violence?

Am I allowed to incite violence with impunity until it actually results in violence?

@no1marauder said
Impeachment is not subject to the same rules as criminal trials.

Generally, incendiary speech cannot be punished unless "the speech is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and it is likely to incite or produce such action." https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brandenburg_test

Then you have to prove intent.

@metal-brain said
Then you have to prove intent.

What does that even mean to you? Specifically, what does the word "prove" mean in your mind?

@no1marauder said
What does that even mean to you? Specifically, what does the word "prove" mean in your mind?

Trump encouraged a protest, not a riot.
There was no intent to start a riot.

@metal-brain said
Trump encouraged a protest, not a riot.
There was no intent to start a riot.

You're not answering my question.

Are you claiming that Trump didn't want the counting of the Electoral votes by Congress disrupted by the mob? That is surely, at the least, debatable.

Trump to the mob:

"You've got to fight like hell or soon you won't have a country."

Over the top rhetoric or incitement to violence (that occurred minutes later)?

@no1marauder said
You're not answering my question.

Are you claiming that Trump didn't want the counting of the Electoral votes by Congress disrupted by the mob? That is surely, at the least, debatable.

Trump didn't call for the counting of the Electoral votes by Congress to be disrupted a mob. He never called for a mob. he called for a peaceful protest.

You have to prove he called for violent acts.

@no1marauder said
Trump to the mob:

"You've got to fight like hell or soon you won't have a country."

Over the top rhetoric or incitement to violence (that occurred minutes later)?

You've got to fight like hell or you won't have Medicare for all.

People use the word fight all the time. It is not always used to imply a literal fight. Do you think I meant beat people up to get Medicare for all?

@metal-brain said
Can Trump be impeached without proving intent?
Lots of people have incited violence against Trump and were never held accountable. Nobody wanted to hold Trump accountable for his vague statements until it resulted in violence.

Is inciting violence only punishable if it results in violence? Can people incite violence with impunity until violence actually happens?

Nobody wanted to hold Trump accountable for his vague statements...

Honestly are you joking? Nobody?

Articles of impeachment were drawn up in 2017 for "Associating the Presidency with White Nationalism, Neo-Nazism and Hatred" and "Inciting Hatred and Hostility". Remember that?

Hearings and investigations have been ongoing centered on the President's association with neo-Nazi's and other hate groups basically throughout his presidency.

Resolutions to impeach or censure Trump have included several areas of concern including "Condoning white nationalism", "Using law enforcement to punish political enemies", and "Attacking the press as "enemies of the people"".

These aren't new things. The writings been on the wall for a long time, only difference here is the outcome as you say but it's not for lack of trying

@wildgrass said

Nobody wanted to hold Trump accountable for his vague statements...

Honestly are you joking? Nobody?

Articles of impeachment were drawn up in 2017 for "Associating the Presidency with White Nationalism, Neo-Nazism and Hatred" and "Inciting Hatred and Hostility". Remember that?

Hearings and investigations have been ongoing centered on the President's as ...[text shortened]... wall for a long time, only difference here is the outcome as you say but it's not for lack of trying

You are taking my quote out of context. Here is the rest.

Nobody wanted to hold Trump accountable for his vague statements until it resulted in violence.

Is inciting violence only punishable if it results in violence? Can people incite violence with impunity until violence actually happens?

@metal-brain said
You are taking my quote out of context. Here is the rest.

Nobody wanted to hold Trump accountable for his vague statements until it resulted in violence.

Is inciting violence only punishable if it results in violence? Can people incite violence with impunity until violence actually happens?

That's not out of context at all. Some people DID want to hold him accountable for his dangerous rhetoric. Articles of impeachment were introduced in 2017 for the incitement of hatred and hostility. He's been stoking the fire for years and lots of people wanted to punish him for that.