Dismantling the Declaration of Independence

Originally posted by no1marauder
Not really. We may do whatever we please but if we ignore our basic Nature our societies will be filled with strife.

There are many Men who think they are in possession of an ultimate truth derived from texts written by Men. You are one of them; I am not.

"We may do whatever we please but if we ignore our basic Nature our societies will be filled with strife."

There are almost as many variants of what our basic Nature is, as there are people.

"There are many Men who think they are in possession of an ultimate truth derived from texts written by Men. You are one of them; I am not."

When did you develop this new-found humility?

Originally posted by Eladar
Ok, you deny that Natural Rights come from God or a Creator. You, like many others, believe in a reality defined by man. Way to state the obvious.

Way to distance yourself from those who wrote the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

Actually you are, as usual, reading your own prejudices into other people's posts.

I never denied that Natural Rights might come from a Creator.

I'm very far from believing in a reality defined by man.

Originally posted by normbenign
"We may do whatever we please but if we ignore our basic Nature our societies will be filled with strife."

There are almost as many variants of what our basic Nature is, as there are people.

"There are many Men who think they are in possession of an ultimate truth derived from texts written by Men. You are one of them; I am not."

When did you develop this new-found humility?

No, there isn't as I have shown many times on this forum.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Bitch at whodey; he was the one who mentioned Jefferson and what he supposedly meant when he mentioned God in the DOI (more precisely he mentioned "Nature's God" and the "Creator"😉.

I differ with both of you, in that Jefferson's notion of "separation of church and State" isn't found in any US government document.

Nor is any reference to Natural law.

Originally posted by FishHead111
Declaration Of Independence has the biggest lie ever told in the beginning with the absurd claim "All men are created equal".

A virulent racist like yourself would certainly object to that concept.

Originally posted by no1marauder
No, there isn't as I have shown many times on this forum.

LOL. 🙄

Originally posted by no1marauder
A virulent racist like yourself would certainly object to that concept.

Taken at face value, it has little meaning without understanding that it refers to men's legal standing before the law. Obviously some men are stronger or smarter than others.

Originally posted by normbenign
I differ with both of you, in that Jefferson's notion of "separation of church and State" isn't found in any US government document.

Nor is any reference to Natural law.

Actually there is a reference to Natural Law in the first sentence of the founding document for the United States:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,

And, of course, the opening sentence of the second paragraph of the DOI is simply a restatement of Lockean Natural Rights and social contract theory.

The notion of "separation of church and State" is surely in the Bill of Rights even if those exact words are not. It is also implicit in the "no religious test" language of Article VI.

Originally posted by normbenign
LOL. 🙄

Idiots do a lot of laughing. But the scientific evidence that Man has a specific nature composed of hard wired tendencies is overwhelming.

Originally posted by normbenign
Taken at face value, it has little meaning without understanding that it refers to men's legal standing before the law. Obviously some men are stronger or smarter than others.

Naturally to you it would have little meaning since you reject almost all of the Founder's principles.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Naturally to you it would have little meaning since you reject almost all of the Founder's principles.

I'm not arguing against the concept, only stating that it is poorly stated.

Originally posted by normbenign
I'm not arguing against the concept, only stating that it is poorly stated.

It's stated precisely as you would expect from someone as skilled in communication as Jefferson. It doesn't say everybody is the same but that they are equal.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Actually there is a reference to Natural Law in the first sentence of the founding document for the United States:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the [b]La ...[text shortened]... paration of church and State" is surely in the Bill of Rights even if those exact words are not.

First the DOI isn't a government document, but a notice to England of the intent of the colonies to separate from the King of England's sovereignty.

You conveniently find notions in the Bill of Rights, and want to ignore actual text from the document. The first amendment says nothing resembling "separation of church and State". It makes it unlawful for Congress to establish a State church, and guarantees free expression and demonstration of religion by the people.

Originally posted by normbenign
First the DOI isn't a government document, but a notice to England of the intent of the colonies to separate from the King of England's sovereignty.

You conveniently find notions in the Bill of Rights, and want to ignore actual text from the document. The first amendment says nothing resembling "separation of church and State". It makes it unlawful f ...[text shortened]... lish a State church, and guarantees free expression and demonstration of religion by the people.

No, the Declaration of Independence isn't a "government document"!!!

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved


Its heading reads: IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.


Would you like to retract that ridiculous claim?

Originally posted by whodey
So do you believe that our rights come from God or from man?

I believe our rights come from God, and this country was founded on Christian principles.