@suzianne saidWhat, like Canada? France? Germany? UK?
That's my point. The US is not lacking in "freedom and liberty" for its people. But the whiny Americans on the right claim they are becoming "oppressed" by the left. I'd like to see any of them last one week outside the US without crying themselves to sleep at night.
On the contrary, those whiny Americans should live outside the US. See how it's like to just go to a doctor and have a checkup without worrying about deductibles and copays and what is covered and premiums and whatever other lunacy americans are dealing with.
@zahlanzi saidHello? Is this thing on?
What, like Canada? France? Germany? UK?
On the contrary, those whiny Americans should live outside the US. See how it's like to just go to a doctor and have a checkup without worrying about deductibles and copays and what is covered and premiums and whatever other lunacy americans are dealing with.
Am I speaking English?
How is it that I'm not being understood?
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@mghrn55 saidHow can liberals and the Biden administration be all about women being in charge of their own bodies, but they want to dictate to the women to get vaccinated and wear masks. So, they pick and choose when to tell the women what to do with their bodies. Gives me a headache.
How about the freedom of a woman to be in charge of her reproductive rights ?
You asked for another item. There you have it.
All yours.
Are they in charge, or are they not?
@averagejoe1 saidGood grief.
How can liberals and the Biden administration be all about women being in charge of their own bodies, but they want to dictate to the women to get vaccinated and wear masks. So, they pick and choose when to tell the women what to do with their bodies. Gives me a headache.
Are they in charge, or are they not?
That’s stretching it to the extent even trump is rolling his bloody eyes.
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@zahlanzi saidZahlanzi...you are quit short-sighted here, Let's say that I am a loser who has not planned for such emergencies, so I get 'worrying' about my meds. But you see, after I leave the Dr office, I have to walk out into a society that will give me A LOT MORE to worry about. The society you want (everyone equal, level playing field) limits my freedom of choice, the income I get to keep, how many cars you let me have, whatever. Big list, Zahlanzi. Govt control, which is the goal of liberals. It wants me to 'trade my freedoms for something they would rather have me be." Do you not see this....do you not see that independent, self-sufficient americans want LIMITED government, while you do not? This is the total crux of this thread.
What, like Canada? France? Germany? UK?
On the contrary, those whiny Americans should live outside the US. See how it's like to just go to a doctor and have a checkup without worrying about deductibles and copays and what is covered and premiums and whatever other lunacy americans are dealing with.
Your response?
@averagejoe1 saidIt is several years old, prob started with Obama, but constantly updated.
Suzianne and I have been dancing around Freedoms, or the losses thereof, with the advent of Democratic agendas. (the "Restricted to One Car' thread). I thought that this is serious stuff, she and I being polar opposites. I wrote to her the attempt of Obamacare to restrict our freedom to have our own personal healthcare insurance, as an example. She implied that she ha ...[text shortened]... but constantly updated.
https://civilcandor.com/freedoms-democrats-take-away-are-not-coming-back/
You have the freedom to move anywhere you want, make you're living however you choose, and speak your mind about anything, anytime you want. All you do however is snivel about our government's attempts to bring affordable healthcare to those who can't afford to pay multi-billion dollar Insurance corporations their big, fat profits, and why? Because Republicans won't budge on paying American workers a minimum wage they can survive on. But hey - It's all Obama's fault, right? 😴
@averagejoe1 said" Let's say that I am a loser who has not planned for such emergencies"
Zahlanzi...you are quit short-sighted here, Let's say that I am a loser who has not planned for such emergencies, so I get 'worrying' about my meds. But you see, after I leave the Dr office, I have to walk out into a society that will give me A LOT MORE to worry about. The society you want (everyone equal, level playing field) limits my freedom of choice, the income I g ...[text shortened]... t LIMITED government, while you do not? This is the total crux of this thread.
Your response?
Poor people who live paycheck to paycheck and get fired because their job was moved to Vietnam are losers. Gotcha.
"The society you want (everyone equal, level playing field) limits my freedom of choice, the income I get to keep, how many cars you let me have, whatever."
First of all, nobody is saying everyone should be equal. Secondly, democratic socialists like Sanders for example won't limit you to do anything. That's just you falling for Fox News propaganda because you are not very smart.
"It wants me to 'trade my freedoms for something they would rather have me be."
What freedoms.
"self-sufficient americans want LIMITED government"
That's meaningless unless you specify what that actually means. Would limited government mean they do not intervene when a factory dumps toxic waste into rivers? Would limited government mean they don't intervene when banks hide fees from you when you take out loans? How about when they engage in risky investments and lose your money, would you like the government to step in then?
Or maybe you are talking about americans wanting government to not provide healthcare? Because that's a lie, the majority of americans do actually want universal healthcare. Even most republicans want that, despite constantly being fed propaganda from the GOP.
@mchill saidSome people cannot afford housing, either. Is that next? Shav said a year ago that the govt should provide free housing, is that next? Why can't it be next? Please close your comments on matters like this. Can you tell us the difference? And food? Your comment is vacuous.
It is several years old, prob started with Obama, but constantly updated.
You have the freedom to move anywhere you want, make you're living however you choose, and speak your mind about anything, anytime you want. All you do however is snivel about our government's attempts to bring affordable healthcare to those who can't afford to pay multi-billion dollar Insurance corpo ...[text shortened]... ng American workers a minimum wage they can survive on. But hey - It's all Obama's fault, right? 😴
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@zahlanzi saidI think she's saying that what these conservatives claim are "lost freedoms" actually aren't; like whining that not being able to get your favorite brand of coffee is "freedom" being taken away.
maybe you're understood just fine and your point was simply not as clever as you thought.
Try again, i would be happy to admit it if i misunderstood you
@averagejoe1 said"Some people cannot afford housing, either. Is that next? "
Some people cannot afford housing, either. Is that next? Shav said a year ago that the govt should provide free housing, is that next? Why can't it be next? Please close your comments on matters like this. Can you tell us the difference? And food? Your comment is vacuous.
Yes, it should be. Not just because it's the bloody humane thing to do but also because it's cheaper to just house everyone instead of keeping them homeless because you americans have a hard on for human suffering.
"And food? "
Yes, food as well.
Look, we know full well you can't comprehend the notion of helping your fellow man. You made it abundantly clear you're a selfish ashole. How about helping yourself though? It helps you, personally, if people get healthcare and housing. Most homeless people can't get job because their homeless. Simply by providing them basic housing means they can have a shower and get to a job interview and have a chance at being productive members of society. A working man helps YOU more than that man being homeless. A man who has healthcare and gets regular checkups helps YOU more a sick guy ending in the emergency room.
So how about you stop being a dumb selfish ashole and start being a pragmatic, smart selfish ashole and see how these measures are actually good for you rather than the alternative.
@vivify saidDon't know what she is arguing exactly, she went straight into defensive mode instead of clarifying her position like an adult.
I think she's saying that what these conservatives claim are "lost freedoms" actually aren't; like whining that not being able to get your favorite brand of coffee is "freedom" being taken away.
She inserted herself into a discussion about freedom by framing the point "you can do worse". That is not the issue. The goal is to improve one's situation, not say "well there is always worse". Not to take up that idiotic notion of American exceptionalism and just say "we have it so good here, you wouldn't last a week outside it". Incidentally, a Canadian does have it better. Many european countries do have it better. Australians (provided you aren't killed by those nasty critters) do have it better. Compare yourself to someone who does a thing better than you, not someone who does it worse.
@zahlanzi [i]saidUhh, Kamala (you can google this) said "At the end of the day, everyone needs to be in the same place". So, yeah, someone is INDEED saying everyone should be equal. You should watch FOX news.
First of all, nobody is saying everyone should be equal. Secondly, democratic socialists like Sanders for example won't limit you to do anything. That's just you falling for Fox News propaganda because you are not very smart.
"It wants me to 'trade my freedoms for something they would rather have me be."
What freedoms.
"self-sufficient americans want LIMITED government ...[text shortened]... l healthcare. Even most republicans want that, despite constantly being fed propaganda from the GOP.
What Freedoms? There are about 100 of them listed on the link on page one of my post.
As to limited govt (Did I say 'NO 'govt, Zahlanzi??) there are many agencies...FDA< FAA, Osha, Military, and maybe 12 other agencies to protect our citizens, such as shutting down corps who put toxic waste into our waterways.
To avoid our fat bureaucracy, many of the other agencies should be closed down, and thus lead to limited government. Such as the Dept of Education.....all of the States, which actually have different and varying curriculum, should be enough, don't you think??
So,Limited Government. Do you think Limited Government is a bad thing? You like a large one, that, just by their existence, gets involved in your business? Taxes you to hell and back to pay for all the largesss of the useless agencies?
As to universal healthcare, that has been discussed ad nauseum. I think the 40M destitute should be covered, and everyone else just take care of themselves.