@shavixmir saidI thought you might tell me the socialist countries.. You see, we have Bernie, AOC,Kamala, et al who desire socialism here. We have a fight on our hands. Have you heard about Venezuela?
Cereal?
You mean healthy foods or that sugary junk you shove down your fat American gobs every day?
Which countries do you consider socialist?
I hear a lot of Americans on Fox claim that Europe is socialist.
Well, come to France, the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany... and tell us how our “socialism” has diminished our choices and freedoms.
I’m off the whole of August ...[text shortened]... garlic) and we’ll discuss it in person.
I’m sure I’ll be able to cater for all your cereal needs.
Don't be petty about my cereal analogy,,,,,,,OK, let us switch it mayonaisse. Whew.
A month away from your job!?!?!??!? What in the world kind of job is that? That wouldn't happen in my world, and if my sons took off that much time from any job, I would disinherit them.
@zahlanzi saidZahlsnzi Romania poverty rate 25%. Shav Scotland 20%.
No no, you're cheating. You're not supposed to mention successful countries that have socialist programs. You can only bring up Venezuela.
USA 9.6%! And you are talking to us?!?!?
And something else, One of you is going to take a month vacation. If we live in the same town and I don’t take such a long wasteful vacation, at the end of that month, I will have more money than you do. Can you tell me how the government, your government, would handle such a disparity as that. Seems like you would be getting screwed from your socialist/marx points of view, in that I would have more money than you do.
I noticed that you ignore my reference to Kamala Harris saying that at the end of the day everyone should be equal. So yes we have a socialist person in our government now, and you see why conservatives and Republicans are real concerned about everyone being equal at the end of the day. It gives me the creeps.
Finally, as you high poverty rate countries have been telling me, we have homeless in this country. They should be supported by our government, and set aside in their life. There are about 40 million of them. Beyond that I do not get how you think that everyone else who is working in their communities need to take care of their neighbors. I will never get that.I find it quite natural to want to make more money than my neighbor and to get ahead of my neighbor and to win over my neighbor in the world of success. How can a normal human not think like that. Have you been brainwashed? You don’t have any winners in your country? Just a bunch of sheep?
@averagejoe1 saidI am not gonna bother explaining again how many times larger the GDP of the US is compared to Romania.
Zahlsnzi Romania poverty rate 25%. Shav Scotland 20%.
USA 9.6%! And you are talking to us?!?!?
And something else, One of you is going to take a month vacation. If we live in the same town and I don’t take such a long wasteful vacation, at the end of that month, I will have more money than you do. Can you tell me how the government, your government, would handle s ...[text shortened]... that. Have you been brainwashed? You don’t have any winners in your country? Just a bunch of sheep?
"One of you is going to take a month vacation"
Yes, time off is essential to the wellbeing of working people.
"I don’t take such a long wasteful vacation, at the end of that month, I will have more money than you do"
No you won't. We have paid time off. We make the same money if we take the vacation or if we don't. If you're a moron and you take a part time job during your vacation, go nuts.
"Can you tell me how the government, your government, would handle such a disparity as that. Seems like you would be getting screwed from your socialist/marx points of view, in that I would have more money than you do."
What is this word soup? You get paid vacation days. Everyone does. According to years worked. What is the problem? What disparity.
" I noticed that you ignore my reference to Kamala Harris saying that at the end of the day everyone should be equal."
I ignore a lot of things, there is only so much stupid one could respond too. But in response to this, I would be very much curious to see just how much your brain porridge managed to misunderstand a quote from Kamala Harris, a centrist (at best) politician to be a marxist quote.
"So yes we have a socialist person in our government now"
If you think Kamala Harris or Joe Biden are socialists you're dumber than a slab of beef.
"I find it quite natural to want to make more money than my neighbor and to get ahead of my neighbor and to win over my neighbor in the world of success."
As long as "winning" and "losing" doesn't mean one gets to eat and have a home and the other gets to starve or die from lack of healthcare or go homeless.
There should be no billionaires as long as people go homeless or hungry or without a home. Once those basic needs are met and the workers are treated fairly, sure, accumulate wealth if that's what you want.
"How can a normal human not think like that"
Well, some people aren't psychopaths like you. Some people want to improve themselves and make a living for themselves not to spite others. To raise themselves up they don't need to bring others down.
@averagejoe1 saidIt’s called freedom.
I thought you might tell me the socialist countries.. You see, we have Bernie, AOC,Kamala, et al who desire socialism here. We have a fight on our hands. Have you heard about Venezuela?
Don't be petty about my cereal analogy,,,,,,,OK, let us switch it mayonaisse. Whew.
A month away from your job!?!?!??!? What in the world kind of job is that? That wouldn't happen in my world, and if my sons took off that much time from any job, I would disinherit them.
I thought you were all for it?
@shavixmir saidWhen they work for me, their freedom is subject to my rules of employment. Do you not agree? They are free to work for me or to quit. They have freedom. I on the other hand, am free to decide if I want them to work for me. A hair-bun guy need not apply if it is for the front office, but if he is a whiz at computers, I will pay him well and put him someplace.
It’s called freedom.
I thought you were all for it?
I am just rambling , I do not know what your post means exactly.
@zahlanzi saidShould be no billionaires??? By whose order? A government of Sociaiists??? Exactly. So, beyond all of your words above, your socialist tendencies and comments and beliefs are enough for me. At least you admit it.
I am not gonna bother explaining again how many times larger the GDP of the US is compared to Romania.
"One of you is going to take a month vacation"
Yes, time off is essential to the wellbeing of working people.
"I don’t take such a long wasteful vacation, at the end of that month, I will have more money than you do"
No you won't. We have paid time off. We make th ...[text shortened]... ing for themselves not to spite others. To raise themselves up they don't need to bring others down.
So at the end of the day (Kamala), that we might all be equal, and I bring home more money than you do, would your socialist leaders do anything about my having more money than you do? You can babble about paid leave and being off for a whole month if you want to , but the question remains, is it OK for me to make and KEEP more money than you do?
You cannot answer this question without wetting your bed, because, you state above No Billionaires should exist. Well theoretically, if I get to KEEP my money I would become a billionaire since I don't have to give you any.
You cannot say that I SHOULD give you part of my earnings, because that makes you an admitted Socialist.
So, what's it gonna be. And what about 1/4 of your population being in poverty? It is what it is, you can split hairs. 90% of our population is doing quite well. Really irks me personally when you talk bad about the Richest country in the world.
And yes, I think it is a virtue to want to get ahead of the next guy. esp in a capitalistic society. Sure has worked well for 250 years. Dont get you on that one. You dont try to get ahead? Then what do you do? Interesting. Maybe you do but just won't admit it??
Socialists in our government? Bernie, AOC, Obama ('I'm gonna spread the wealth around"😉 and I've already mentioned Kamala. I assume Susan Rice (Obama's VP) is a socialist but she is quite secretive ....have you seen her lately? When all these people DO surface, if they do, you will look back at AVJoe posts............
Biden does not know what he is, he knows nothing. His affliction is known behind closed doors, I know what it is, he will not be in that office much longer.
@averagejoe1 said"Should be no billionaires??? By whose order? A government of Sociaiists???
Should be no billionaires??? By whose order? A government of Sociaiists??? Exactly. So, beyond all of your words above, your socialist tendencies and comments and beliefs are enough for me. At least you admit it.
So at the end of the day (Kamala), that we might all be equal, and I bring home more money than you do, would your socialist leaders do anything about ...[text shortened]... fliction is known behind closed doors, I know what it is, he will not be in that office much longer.
No, just decency. It's really hard to become a billionaire if you don't oppress your workers, if you don't cut corners, if you don't bend rules.
But, if they pay their workers a decent wage, have good working conditions, don't dodge taxes and pay a fair share, i have absolutely no problem with billionaires existing.
"So at the end of the day (Kamala), that we might all be equal, and I bring home more money than you do, would your socialist leaders do anything about my having more money than you do?"
You still haven't proven you aren't lying about Kamala Harris.
"is it OK for me to make and KEEP more money than you do?"
sure it is. Nobody said anything different. Until you prove so, neither did Kamala Harris. Certainly not Sanders. Neither did AOC.
The thing is, unless you find some wacky communist youtuber with 200 viewers or whatever hippie commune in the middle of bumfuk nowhere, pretty much everyone is quite ok with some people making more money than others. The problem we have is when a very small number of people make obscenely more money than others by cheating the system and at the expense of others. That's when we get mad
"You cannot answer this question without wetting your bed, because, you state above No Billionaires should exist"
no billionaires should exist while people die of starvation, are homeless and lack healthcare. There is a slight difference. I know you can only remember tiny talking points expressed in as few words as possible, but do try and not misrepresent what i said.
"Well theoretically, if I get to KEEP my money I would become a billionaire since I don't have to give you any."
Well, you DON'T get to KEEP all your money since you don't exist in the United States of Joe, population you. You exist in a society, you pay taxes. All your wealth is as much a product of society around you as it is yours. Bezos doesn't work 200 billion times harder than a guy waiting tables. He just gamed the system better, exploited more people, and accumulated such wealthh. Because we shopped for crap on Amazon. He must pay therefore pay back this good fortune in the form of taxation.
" You cannot say that I SHOULD give you part of my earnings, because that makes you an admitted Socialist."
No, that just says i am not an anarchist. Everyone pays part of their earnings, it's called taxation and there isn't a country on the face of the planet that works without it.
"And what about 1/4 of your population being in poverty? "
What about it. You lost focus already? Something shiny distracted you? Romania being poor changes anything about the US and its problems?
"And yes, I think it is a virtue to want to get ahead of the next guy. esp in a capitalistic society. Sure has worked well for 250 years. "
Yes, because socialists kept pushing back and balancing it. Socialists pushed for a ban on child labour, socialists pushed for a minimum wage, socialists pushed for an 8 hour workday and paid time off. Because they realised that should capitalists be left unchecked, they would stop at nothing to make more profit.
They subtly change the patent of insulin so they can charge more money even though the guy who invented it wanted it to be cheap and affordable. Even though it's cheaper everywhere else.
"Socialists in our government? Bernie, AOC, Obama ('I'm gonna spread the wealth around"😉 and I've already mentioned Kamala"
Bwahahahaha Obama was a socialist 😀
Everytime i hear this idiocy it cracks me up.
You mentioned Kamala but you still haven't proven she said "everyone should be equal" 😀 So considering your history here, i am calling you a liar about that as well. Prove it or abstain from making a fool of yourself (fat chance there).
As for Sanders and AOC, one is a senator the other is a congresswoman. Both are hindered every step they take by corporatists on both sides (though i am glad to see, with increasing difficulty)
"You dont try to get ahead?"
I most certainly do. Yet, I pay taxes for Romania's national healthcare fund even though i am not using any services at the moment and most likely i never will. For the simple fact that some Romanians don't have a private insurance policy paid for by their employer and my country needs butlers/construction workers/mechanics/farmers etc, just as much as it needs my profession. I pay taxes on my car so that roads are maintained and new ones get built.
I don't whine like a cheap ashole that i should pay less taxes because some guy didn't have the fortune of choosing a profession that happens to pay more right now.
"Biden does not know what he is, he knows nothing. His affliction is known behind closed doors, I know what it is, he will not be in that office much longer."
And yet, still more coherent than Trump. Just because he doesn't spout nonsense when he is looking how to phrase an idea means nothing. Trump hasn't formed a coherent thought in 6 years.
@AverageJoe1
Yeah, repubs want the freedom to dump toxic waste into our rivers.
Repubs want ZERO actual governess, ZERO taxes so they don't have to be bothered with actually lifting people out of poverty.
All you had to do to suss that out was to watch the Biden speech, when he announced some program good for people like child care and the like, dems stood up and clapped, repubs, sit there in frowning silence.
Repubs: HOW DARE YOU TRY HELPING THE COMMON FOLK.
we KNOW the way to wealth is to stop taxing big corps so they can trickle down to the common folk, those big corps are SO altruistic they think of NOTHING but helping out the common folk.
What a crock of utter BULLSHYTE.
Biden is trying and succeeding in helping ALL Americans not just dems.
But of course Moscow Mitch doesn't care a SHYTE about helping folks, ONLY in maintaining his sick hold of political power.
That is ALL he EVER thinks about.
And the same with the rest of the sicko repubs who ONLY want to stop ANYTHING brought up by dems.
PROVE ME WRONG.
@sonhouse saidSo here's Sonhouse. He says things like repubs want to poison water. Would I lie?
@AverageJoe1
Yeah, repubs want the freedom to dump toxic waste into our rivers.
Repubs want ZERO actual governess, ZERO taxes so they don't have to be bothered with actually lifting people out of poverty.
All you had to do to suss that out was to watch the Biden speech, when he announced some program good for people like child care and the like, dems stood up and clappe ...[text shortened]... h the rest of the sicko repubs who ONLY want to stop ANYTHING brought up by dems.
PROVE ME WRONG.
Then he implies in sentence #2 that we want limited government and low taxes. Who doesn't? Why type that?
Then he implies that we done care if people are in poverty, when we have one of the best records in the world.
Then he points out how Biden, who has begun dividing our country from Day One by closing the pipeline, etc etc., wants big government to be the answer to saving our country. Big Government!!
He suggests the repubs did not like the idea of government-paid child care, but the plan does not pan-out, when you see there is no way to pay for it, and it does not speak to equitable application. Sonhouse, and others, probably had not studied the ramifications of many of the proposed programs. Sonhouse does not mention Free College, maybe because it is not free. He also probably realizes that students coming out of 'free college' (especially Community Colleges) are not qualified for the jobs they were trained to do. He probably knows also that the costs of everything abut free college will go UP when the government gets involved. Yeah, that is probably why he didn't mention that.
He says that "Biden is about helping all Americans"", but on Day One, he cancelled 15000 pipeline jobs. I have lost count of his "UTTER BULLSHYTE" since that happened.
🤔 🤔
I guess we can all prove Sonhouse wrong, by showing, given the above,, that he ain't right !!!!
2 edits
@zahlanzi saidFINALLY!!! Someone who says the there are successful Socialist countries!! Please name them, but know that an average person expects a country which has a free people, who can work independently Without government controls and regulations which, in any way, restrict their freedom to make and keep as much money as they can.
No no, you're cheating. You're not supposed to mention successful countries that have socialist programs. You can only bring up Venezuela.
You see, if that is not case, people like me and guys who are successful and create hundreds of jobs and buy lake houses for their families would not find success in countries which restrict successes, and, frankly, billionaires. I am not one, but it makes my point.
It would not make sense for you to name countries that restrict freedom and liberty. I hope this makes sense.
PS: I respect that it is repugnant to socialists to have a man like me mention money, but money is the measuring stick, the vehicle, which measures success. I knew of no other way to make my point here, not other word that I could have used.
@zahlanzi saidOn your first sentence, ....the people like Jeff Bezos and Gates, et al. They are billionaires. What would have been a better plan for them under your government? Jesus. Are you fellers for real? They oppressed somebody???? Jesus. You fellers are emotional wrecks. Angry, too. Maybe jealous of the successful people?? (Who create may many jobs for the 'oppressed workers'😉. Jesus.
"Should be no billionaires??? By whose order? A government of Sociaiists???
No, just decency. It's really hard to become a billionaire if you don't oppress your workers, if you don't cut corners, if you don't bend rules.
But, if they pay their workers a decent wage, have good working conditions, don't dodge taxes and pay a fair share, i have absolutely no problem ...[text shortened]... e is looking how to phrase an idea means nothing. Trump hasn't formed a coherent thought in 6 years.
2nd sentence. For purposes of debates, we must stipulate...there is no criminal tax dodging, murder or kidnapping. We are speaking of law-abidement. You are worse than Sonhouse. I do agree decent wages and good working conditions. Cool...why type that???
Funny you actually say that I can keep more money than you do, which is against Marx , which you are. You know full well the the increase in taxes is going to take away my freedoms, and my money. What a joke. Pretty shallow joke.
What is obscene, and how is it cheating the system and how is it at the 'expense of others'.? Walmart has rich owners, and employs near 100,000 people. Tell us that their money is made the 'expense of others' I think your buddy Suzianne says on the 'the backs of others'. She never explained that, and you can't either.
OK, your thing about there should be no billionaires while people are destitute. Wow, strong stuff. Since you said it, how bout you open a dedicated thread on that. Should be fun. Start about how we should attack the rich, and attack the corporations, who made your computer and your car. Uhhh, your computer wouldn't have been made in the USA, would it?
Your next paragraph, abut Bezos, et al, not worth discussing. You need to get with the program. I bet your neighbor got an amazon pkg today. You prob never do order from Amazon, do you?? hahaha What kind of world do you want, anyway? Do you think we should all just go into our basement and make what we need? This the way things are done in your country? Naaaa, I pay people for that.
On the next paragraph, you mention 'anarchist'?????? Whatever. Now, where were we.....OH yeah, you were educating us that taxes are necessary, and assessed, in every country. Let me make note of that in my journal. Next to Sonhouse stuff!
I have no idea what your comment means, in response to my clear post about the poverty in other countries, I googled it. I am just the messenger, you need to go and volunteer to correct the problem. I made a boatload of money today, do you want me to give it to someone? How do you distinguish to whom to give it. What if it is a guy who cheats (as you mention people will do, above) gets the money?
Do you REALLY say that 'they' would stop and nothing to make more profit?? Ujhhh, what do you propose that they do? Say 'That is enough? We can quit making money now.."? Best you take a break from the threads. Then you say a guy who has a patent on insulin should be ToldByTheGovernment how much to charge???? So if I invent the cure for AIDS, and give shots in my living room for $1000, should the government be able to tell me to lower my price? Interesting. I think you may be BEYOND MARX! Here are the Kamala remarks. I hate you ended your treatise with Trump. Pitiful. Dnt forget this link!!!
https://reason.com/2020/11/02/kamala-harris-equality-equity-outcomes/
@averagejoe1 saidNo. That is not freedom.
When they work for me, their freedom is subject to my rules of employment. Do you not agree? They are free to work for me or to quit. They have freedom. I on the other hand, am free to decide if I want them to work for me. A hair-bun guy need not apply if it is for the front office, but if he is a whiz at computers, I will pay him well and put him someplace.
I am just rambling , I do not know what your post means exactly.
You want freedom to control people.
As I’ve stated earlier, the right-wint definition of freedom has nothing to do with freedom. It’s about narcissim.