Employment Discrimination

@sh76 said
Without going into too much detail, I interviewed someone who wanted to re-locate to "get away from all the discrimination I face around here."

Just uttering that sentence in a job interview indicates poor judgement, and an attention seeking, oh poor me attitude. Nope nope nope.

@sh76 said
Parasite brought up in another thread "a man about 50 years old who looked like a fisherman his whole life wearing a miniskirt and a blonde wig that kept sliding off"

I doubt most people would hire a biological woman whose "wig kept sliding off". I don't think it would be unreasonable if an employer passed on such a woman.

Whenever trans people are discussed by people right-wingers it's always in the most exaggerated, unflattering terms possible: a burley man in grandma stockings with stubble on his face. It's never people like Kim Petras or Lavern Cox (unfortunate last name for the latter).

The first thing anyone is taught when applying for a job is that appearance is paramount. Looks and personality can often matter more than how qualified they are during job interviews. It's a well-known and unfair fact of life.

Trans people (especially trans women) have an even more difficult battle with looking presentable to an interviewer. I'd wager that some trans people aren't necessarily dismissed because the interviewer was a bigot; it could simply be they didn't look the part because it's harder for trans people to do so.

@vivify said
I doubt most people would hire a biological woman whose "wig kept sliding off". I don't think it would be unreasonable if an employer passed on such a woman.

Whenever trans people are discussed by people right-wingers it's always in the most exaggerated, unflattering terms possible: a burley man in grandma stockings with stubble on his face. It's never people like Kim P ...[text shortened]... a bigot; it could simply be they didn't look the part because it's harder for trans people to do so.

If you are a man, dress like a man for work and your employment problem is solved. If you are unable or unwilling to do that then your mental problem / personality disorder is interfering with your ability to function in society. See a psychiatrist.

@Sleepyguy said
If you are a man, dress like a man for work and your employment problem is solved. If you are unable or unwilling to do that then your mental problem / personality disorder is interfering with your ability to function in society. See a psychiatrist.

Do you require that women must wear makeup and "dress like women"? She can't have a short haircut or wear jeans, a t-shirt or sneakers?

@vivify said
Do you require that women must wear makeup and "dress like women"? She can't have a short haircut or wear jeans, a t-shirt or sneakers?

I would not hire someone I thought would be disruptive, or try to change other people's use of common language, or demand others participate in a delusion.

@vivify said
Do you require that women must wear makeup and "dress like women"? She can't have a short haircut or wear jeans, a t-shirt or sneakers?

I don't care about the haircut, but wearing jeans and a t-shirt to a job interview makes a statement - that statement being "F the man!"

Since I am the man (in the case of the interview), I tend to look dimly on that.

@Sleepyguy said
I would not hire someone I thought would be disruptive, or try to change other people's use of common language, or demand others participate in a delusion.

That doesn't answer the question at all.

Does a woman have to "dress like one" and wear makeup with long hair? Should they not be allowed in workplaces with jeans, t-shirts and sneakers if men are?

@sh76 said
I don't care about the haircut, but wearing jeans and a t-shirt to a job interview makes a statement - that statement being "F the man!"

Since I am the man (in the case of the interview), I tend to look dimly on that.

Okay, then say a blazer and pants suit, no makeup. The point is that if you expect men to "dress like men" do you then have the same policy for women?

Sleepy Guy dodged the question because he knows it's become acceptable for women in the West to wear such attire in public. Therefore, saying "women should dress like women" would be a regressive and sexist statement.

We as a society decide what's acceptable and can change these rules at any time. There's no inherent reason for men or women to dress how they do.

@vivify said
Okay, then say a blazer and pants suit, no makeup. The point is that if you expect men to "dress like men" do you then have the same policy for women?

Sleepy Guy dodged the question because he knows it's become acceptable for women in the West to wear such attire in public. Therefore, saying "women should dress like women" would be a regressive and sexist statement.
...[text shortened]... n change these rules at any time. There's no inherent reason for men or women to dress how they do.

It IS the same policy. Don't be disruptive. Don't make yourself a spectacle.

@Sleepyguy said
It IS the same policy. Don't be disruptive. Don't make yourself a spectacle.

Yet this is the second time you've dodged answering that question about women with short-hair/pants/sneakers directly. I think you see the point.

@vivify said
Yet this is the second time you've dodged answering that question about women with short-hair/pants/sneakers directly. I think you see the point.

You've answered it yourself. It's acceptable for women to wear those clothes (in casual work environments) because it would not create a spectacle. If she demands everyone use he/him pronouns to refer to her and wants everyone to pretend she's something she's not then forget it. Nope. Save that crap for your private life or Halloween.

@Sleepyguy said
You've answered it yourself. It's acceptable for women to wear those clothes (in casual work environments) because it would not create a spectacle. If she demands everyone use he/him pronouns to refer to her and wants everyone to pretend she's something she's not then forget it. Nope. Save that crap for your private life or Halloween.

You know the point being made, which is why you avoided answering it. You understand that saying "women should dress like women" is a sexist statement, especially when women are not required in our society to dress in traditionally feminine ways.

If we give this liberty to women, you can see why it's not a stretch to not have to hold men to the same standard. We already do so for women, no reason why we can't do so for men.

@vivify said
You know the point being made, which is why you avoided answering it. You understand that saying "women should dress like women" is a sexist statement, especially when women are not required in our society to dress in traditionally feminine ways.

If we give this liberty to women, you can see why it's not a stretch to not have to hold men to the same standard. We already do so for women, no reason why we can't do so for men.

LOL round and round. You think you're making a point, fine, whatever. Remember this is a question about work place hiring decisions. There is more to consider than just this one person's feelings. You said yourself that it is acceptable for women to dress in jeans and t-shirts, no make up, etc. I agree. Therefore, a woman dressing that way IS dressing like a woman. No spectacle, no disruption, no problem.

@Sleepyguy said
Remember this is a question about work place hiring decisions.

Right. But you then went on to make broader points about what is and isn't a woman and dressing according to gender.

All I'm saying is that in this day and age it's also becoming more and more acceptable to be trans. If your concern is "acceptability" then the only hinderance to that are people like yourself.

These same conversations were had about women in the workplace, gays in the workplace, etc. All detractors used the same arguments based in traditionalism like you did. Looking back, none of those arguments were valid.

@vivify said
Okay, then say a blazer and pants suit, no makeup. The point is that if you expect men to "dress like men" do you then have the same policy for women?

Sleepy Guy dodged the question because he knows it's become acceptable for women in the West to wear such attire in public. Therefore, saying "women should dress like women" would be a regressive and sexist statement.
...[text shortened]... n change these rules at any time. There's no inherent reason for men or women to dress how they do.

Blazer and pants suit with no makeup is fine.

That's acceptable dress attire and so it wouldn't set off any red flags in my mind.

===We as a society decide what's acceptable and can change these rules at any time. There's no inherent reason for men or women to dress how they do.===

Yeah; but it's set by social convention, not by government fiat. If someone doesn't want to conform even to the basics of social convention at least on a job interview, you have to wonder whether there's anger or resentment that's going to be a problem for you.