Failure to Prevent Suicide

Originally posted by generalissimo
If people want to kill themselves its their choice, not mine, not yours, not anybody else's.

what of capacity to "want" such a thing?

you do not care enough for anyone else to try to prevent such a thing?

how interesting

Originally posted by whodey
Let me guess, the psychologist was a Republican and Bush supporter.

I don't think so - rather sure not, in fact.

in any event, politics is quite irrelevant and immaterial

Originally posted by smw6869
Scriabin: By holding the psychologist responsible tells me that your family has not yet accepted the death of your son. They're still in some sort of denial. They need to let go. I would suggest a meeting with the pshcholigist where your family can yell and scream at her for not preventing your son's suicide. Let it all out, the psychologist will understand ...[text shortened]... 30.

Please keep in mind that i got my PhD in Psychology from Ding Dong School.

GRANNY.

why, that school rings a bell ...

yeah, they aren't ready to let go. don't blame either one. I was very ill at the time he died and the burden fell on the two of them. then my wife got very ill and now my daughter isn't too well either.

dealing with a lot can make this process take a long long time

spoke with a friend whose 8-yr old son was run down and killed by a car in front of him 20 years ago. He's not really ever going to get over it, but he tells me one can live on while changed by all that.

You begin to appreciate the good things eventually and simultaneously to feel the pain and grief that the one you lost isn't there to appreciate them, too.

I think another thing to consider is the possibility that this could make its way to court, which would involve a whole new level of trauma for all concerned, and in the end not succeed. Putting aside whether a guilty verdict would, in fact, provide the closure sought (which is certainly not guaranteed), a not guilty verdict would surely only make things yet worse.

As you say, you're looking for validation for what you already feel - as you know, nothing about grief is easy, and I don't think something like this makes it any easier.

But I do sincerely hope that something does begin positively to change for you and yours.

Originally posted by Scriabin
I don't blame anyone, except myself. I simply failed to appreciate over many years just how really sick he was; he suffered a great deal. We all did the best we could and this is just the way it turned out.

however, my wife and daughter feel otherwise.

I do respect his decision, and slowly my wife and daughter will come to do so as well.

In the mea ...[text shortened]...
I do this to help me keep my mind clear.

bottom line? yes, it is sad. not much more to it.

Reason first, emotion second, then we'll get some sense out of you. Be angry, sad or whatever but try and get with some logic first.

You're discussing suing a Dr for negligence? ...but here you take the blame:

"I don't blame anyone, except myself. I simply failed to appreciate over many years just how really sick he was..."

Do you know what those words mean "I don't blame anyone, except myself."

You then take any blame away from anyone i.e. yourself, the Dr and the suicide themself, in the very next sentence.

"We all did the best we could and this is just the way it turned out."

Each time a Dr is sued for malpratice (successfully or unsuccessfully) it makes it that little bit harder for others to seek help. Dr's become shy of taking on the most serious cases, expenses go up.

There is one person responsible here, and that was the person with their finger on the trigger, did that person themself really do their best not to pull it? I do not respect his decision (as KN so in-eloquently put's it) only his right to make that decision.

Originally posted by DrKF
I think another thing to consider is the possibility that this could make its way to court, which would involve a whole new level of trauma for all concerned, and in the end not succeed. Putting aside whether a guilty verdict would, in fact, provide the closure sought (which is certainly not guaranteed), a not guilty verdict would surely only make things yet wo ...[text shortened]... .

But I do sincerely hope that something does begin positively to change for you and yours.

thanks. I agree with your insight.

In fact, I tried to get my wife and daughter early on to go along with my view of things. I told them a story that meant a lot to me I heard during one of my Mindfulness sessions.

An African tribe called the Ko is said to exist. They believe that if someone kills a member of their family, the family can capture and bind the killer, then drop him just off the shore of a river in water deep enough to drown him while the family stands just a few feet away.

They then have a choice to make: let the killer drown or take him from the water and set him free.

In the latter case, the killer goes carrying the burden of what he's done while the family goes carrying only the good things about the life of whom they have lost; in the former case, the family will have justice, but they will mourn the rest of their lives.

I believe this to be true. And I don't need this "justice." That, nor anything, will give me back my son. But I can carry his spirit and character and the joy of his existence with me the rest of my life, so long as I don't let anger and the denial of that which is the case pollute my mind.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Reason first, emotion second, then we'll get some sense out of you. Be angry, sad or whatever but try and get with some logic first.

You're discussing suing a Dr for negligence? ...but here you take the blame:

"I don't blame anyone, except myself. I simply failed to appreciate over many years just how really sick he was..."

Do you know what his decision (as KN so in-eloquently put's it) only his right to make that decision.

you have misunderstood.

it is not I who is angry. it is not I who wants to sue anyone. my wife and daughter do not have the perspective, legally, or emotionally, I do on all this.

it is they who are considering doing this because they do not want the statute of limitations to decide the matter for them.

slowly, I am making my wife see it the way I do. It will take even more time to convince my daughter.

We can talk about the law, about the intellectual part of all this. But I note in many, but by no means not all, comments a peculiar lack of emotional intelligence. Some people seem unable to appreciate how a mother feels on losing her first born son. They also seem not to address how a sister feels on losing her protective, beloved older brother. They were very close. He took great pride in her. The day he died was the last day she felt able to return to her own apartment in the same complex as his. She only recently moved out of our house again to her own place in a different part of town.

When I said thoughtful responses, I was also looking for some emotional insight.

Logic has no priority in all this. I know the law; I know the value or lack thereof of this potential case. I also know people undertake these things for reasons having nothing to do with logic, intellectual constructs, legal theories, or money.

More thought, less glibness?

Originally posted by Scriabin
When I said thoughtful responses, I was also looking for some emotional insight.

After these first four pages it seems to me you that were simply looking for the opportunity to talk about yourself at great length and to dish out various shades of intellectual rebuke to many of those engaging with you. Serving up a mawkish story about yourself and then beating your chest about others' relative lack of emotional intelligence has got to be one of the most peculiar kinds of emotionally twisted self-regarding dick waving I've seen on these Forums in several years. Whatever floats your boats, Scriabin.

Ive had a number of friends die from suicide and its a horrible act to deal with. When I was 20 I walked home a friend the night he done it. Some of his family didnt know he was suicidal and placed some of the blame on us for not telling them. More recently(a year or two ago) I had a friend who was trying to get into mental health but they didnt see him before he over-dosed on pills. The next week another friend from the same group followed suit and jumped into his noose breaking his neck.

I think what you need to be concerned about is any people from his friends/loved ones who may follow suit or have their lives ruined trying to deal with it.

In regards to the shrink.. what did you expect from her? To place him into a nuthouse?

Originally posted by FMF
After these first four pages it seems to me you that were simply looking for the opportunity to talk about yourself at great length and to dish out various shades of intellectual rebuke to many of those engaging with you. Serving up a mawkish story about yourself and then beating your chest about others' relative lack of emotional intelligence has got to be one ...[text shortened]... dick waving I've seen on these Forums in several years. Whatever floats your boats, Scriabin.

May your husbands rotting trout whisper sweet nothings in the sphincter of your slapped ass.

GRANNY.

Originally posted by FMF
After these first four pages it seems to me you that were simply looking for the opportunity to talk about yourself at great length and to dish out various shades of intellectual rebuke to many of those engaging with you. Serving up a mawkish story about yourself and then beating your chest about others' relative lack of emotional intelligence has got to be one ...[text shortened]... dick waving I've seen on these Forums in several years. Whatever floats your boats, Scriabin.

what a low, slimy sort of person you are, FMF

what a self-involved green eyed post that was

not getting your share of attention?

not the center of things, Fred?

You are an amazing, pathetic wreck of a person to utter such dreck without one shred of decency

you also do it all the time everywhere you show up

you are all hat and no cattle, old bean -- and just like that Marlboro man, you are a cancer on the body politic

do you have any idea what a drag it is to see you?

Originally posted by Scriabin
what a low, slimy sort of person you are, FMF

what a self-involved green eyed post that was

not getting your share of attention?

not the center of things, Fred?

You are an amazing, pathetic wreck of a person to utter such dreck without one shred of decency

you also do it all the time everywhere you show up

you are all hat and no cattle, o ...[text shortened]... man, you are a cancer on the body politic

do you have any idea what a drag it is to see you?

If starting a maudlin own-navel-gazing thread is your benchmark for "emotional intelligence", along with asking someone who finally calls you on it "...not getting your share of attention?", then perhaps you should stick it in the same place as where your own self-obsessed head is quite obviously buried.

Your attempted personal abuse gives yet another vivid example of the kind of "emotional intelligence" you seem to trade in.

Originally posted by Ironman2
Ive had a number of friends die from suicide and its a horrible act to deal with. When I was 20 I walked home a friend the night he done it. Some of his family didnt know he was suicidal and placed some of the blame on us for not telling them. More recently(a year or two ago) I had a friend who was trying to get into mental health but they didnt see him bef ...[text shortened]... th it.

In regards to the shrink.. what did you expect from her? To place him into a nuthouse?

well, for myself I didn't expect more than she did. I think if I had the same info I would have called the police to confiscate the weapon.

the gun shop didn't know the boy had been hospitalized as a minor.

it was fortunate, in a sense, his illness made him take all the blame and misery on himself rather than act out like that poor kid at Va Tech who took it all out on 35 other people.

but the psych did what her training and advice told her to do. it was wrong, a mistake, and I'm confident she wishes she had made a different choice in light of the outcome.

what a terrible thing for you to see this spreading among people you knew. of course you share no blame, had nothing to do with the death of your friend. I'm sure had you known everything you know now, you might have intervened.

At the time, how could you know that? you didn't even make a mistake given the facts I see -- you are a victim, too.

it is a tragedy to survive a suicide of a loved one or a friend and carry afterwards a feeling of guilt. but it is also so normal and usual that all those who have offered help have told me the same thing.

yes, I was concerned. we've been in close touch with his best pals -- they are all doing well. he protected them by not letting them know how bad he felt, what was going on. everyone, including his parents, were taken in. this, too, is not unusual.

intellectually, I know the guilt and blame is groundless. emotionally, it is tough to deal with and takes a long time to cope with.

I hope you do not feel at all at fault any longer, if ever you did, for clearly you should not.

Originally posted by FMF
If starting a maudlin own-navel-gazing thread is your benchmark for "emotional intelligence", along with asking someone who finally calls you on it "...not getting your share of attention?", then perhaps you should stick it in the same place as where your own self-obsessed head is quite obviously buried.

Your attempted personal abuse gives yet another vivid example of the kind of "emotional intelligence" you seem to trade in.

I reserve this "abuse" for you -- the Abuser General here at RHP

you are the only one allowed to dish out abuse, one guesses

you are the only one allowed to approve thread subject matter?

you are the only one who cannot cope with a reasonably interesting discussion that I find helpful

if you don't, go away and install that glass window in your own navel you clearly need to see where you are going.

if my dog had a face as ugly as your soul as yours, I'd shave his backside and teach him to walk backward.

you aren't even house trained, it would appear

what could possibly motivate the sort of crap you've strewn in here?

a sick sick mind, that's what

that's you, FMF, a very sick man indeed

Originally posted by Scriabin
intellectually, I know the guilt and blame is groundless. emotionally, it is tough to deal with and takes a long time to cope with.

Maybe starting Threads about yourself on a chess site's public forums is part of your coping process?