Gaza freedom march

Originally posted by bill718
You are clearly twisting my words here. I did not say anything of the kind. I really don't care what Israel does. I only suggested a 2 state idea MAY be an option. I also suggested If I lived in Gaza I would not try to fight what Israel does, rather I would move to another country and stop fighting over one stupid little piece of land. Your paranoia is just too clear here!😏

In fact the legal representatives of Israel and Palestine have already agreed to a two state solution. It is described in the Roadmap to Peace, which Hamas refuses to acknowledge ... which is the reason why peacetalks are not possible.

Originally posted by shavixmir
That would depend on which two-State solution you're referring to.

Would it be the UN one, where 50% of the land is owned by Palestinians, Jerusalem is split in two and is capital to both countries and the Palestinians and Israeli's have control over equal amounts of harbours?

Or would it be the two-State solution Israel has pushed for, where the Pal ajor harbour and their country is divided into segments which cannot self-sustain themselves?

If it's anyone's fault that the UN Palestine doesn't exist, it's that of Egypt, Jordan and Syria, who wouldn't let Palestine exist at the outset of its creation.

Okay, but forget about blame. What's past is past. Nobody should really care who's fault it is going forward.

How about this:

- The basis for the division is the 1967 borders

- Israel annxes the sections of the WB than adjoin its pre-1967 territory that contain large Jewish settlement

- Palestine is compensated with other empty land of equivalent geographic area in other areas

- West Jerusalem (the Jewish section) becomes the internationally recognized capital of Israel

- East Jerusalem (the Arab section) becomes capital of Palestine

- The Old city is jointly governed by a consortium that includes Israelis, Arabs and international peacekeepers. Safe access to the old city holy sites is guaranteed for all people

- An above ground highway that connects the WB and Gaza is constructed and maintained and is Palestinian territory, though the land underneath is Israeli territory

- All Palestinians that can show that they were forced to leave areas that are now Israel receive reasonable compensation to allow them to purchase new housing in the new Palestinian state

- Palestine promises to alter its educational system to stop encouraging the murder of Israelis or the destruction of Israel. Hamas agrees to renounce the idea of violence and the destruction of Israel

- The Kahanas and similar settler movements on the Israeli side agree to do the same

- Egypt and Jordan agree to continue and expand their peace agreements with Israel

- The Golan, Sheeba farms and other disputed areas become the bases for peace talks between Israel, Syria and Lebanon.

- Israeli and Palestinian panels agree to meet yearly to cooperate to allocate natural resources such as the Jordan River.

- Israel and Palestine become most favored trading partners, Teams from Jericho, Jenin, Damascus and Gaza join Israeli sports leagues. Eventually, they become the best of friends.

- Everyone agrees once and for all that they're not entitled to a damn thing based on their religion and religion can never be a reason to demean, hurt or discriminate against another person.

Deal?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
In fact the legal representatives of Israel and Palestine have already agreed to a two state solution. It is described in the Roadmap to Peace, which Hamas refuses to acknowledge ... which is the reason why peacetalks are not possible.

Peace talks are always possible, unless there are a bunch of blind mutes fighting. But maybe they could have peace touch.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
In fact the legal representatives of Israel and Palestine have already agreed to a two state solution. It is described in the Roadmap to Peace, which Hamas refuses to acknowledge ... which is the reason why peacetalks are not possible.

In 2006, Hamas recognized Israel's right to exist informally.

None of the four major Israeli parties are willing to recognize Palestine -- Likud, Kadima, Yisrael Beinatu, or Labor.

Originally posted by scherzo
In 2006, Hamas recognized Israel's right to exist informally.

None of the four major Israeli parties are willing to recognize Palestine -- Likud, Kadima, Yisrael Beinatu, or Labor.

Wrong, wrong, not sure, and wrong.

Not sure about YB, but the other parties have all accepted the idea of a Palestinian state.

The fact that you'd make that allegation regarding Labor is truly bizarre, since Ehud Barack, a member of Labor, offered a comprehensive idea for a Pal. state in 2000 that was rejected by Arafat.

Originally posted by scherzo
Traditional one-state solution -- binational state called Palestine run by Palestinians with proportional Israeli representation.

Ridiculous!

Originally posted by ivanhoe
In fact the legal representatives of Israel and Palestine have already agreed to a two state solution. It is described in the Roadmap to Peace, which Hamas refuses to acknowledge ... which is the reason why peacetalks are not possible.

Do you know the details of the Roadmap to Peace and why Hamas didn't accepted it?

Originally posted by sh76
Not sure about YB, but the other parties have all accepted the idea of a Palestinian state.

Details please.

Originally posted by adam warlock
Details please.

Easy.


Labor:

"Israel's Labor Party drops objection to Palestinian state"

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-8376674.html

See also:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125080975709547837.html



Kadima:
"Olmert: Palestinian State Vital To Israel"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/29/world/main3552151.shtml



Likud:
"Netanyahu Agrees to Palestinian State"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=amzipW1D8RrQ



Even YB, while less clear, has impliedly accepted the concept of a Palestinian State, even if they don't like the idea.
"I'm willing to allow for a period of time during which there will be another attempt to arrive at a Palestinian state"

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1109476.html

Originally posted by sh76
Easy.


Labor:

"Israel's Labor Party drops objection to Palestinian state"

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-8376674.html

See also:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125080975709547837.html



Kadima:
"Olmert: Palestinian State Vital To Israel"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/29/world/main3552151.shtml



Likud:
"Netanyahu Agrees ...[text shortened]... to arrive at a Palestinian state"

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1109476.html

Details about what kind of palestinian "state". We all know this years joke of a proposition of a palestinian state.

Originally posted by adam warlock
Details about what kind of palestinian "state". We all know this years joke of a proposition of a palestinian state.

Obviously, they're not going to spell out details other than in the context of a negotiation. Why would you ever spell out details other than in the course of a negotiation??

See my outline above. I'm virtually certain that a majority of Israelis would agree to those.

Originally posted by sh76
If it's anyone's fault that the UN Palestine doesn't exist, it's that of Egypt, Jordan and Syria, who wouldn't let Palestine exist at the outset of its creation.

Okay, but forget about blame. What's past is past. Nobody should really care who's fault it is going forward.

How about this:

- The basis for the division is the 1967 borders

- Israel annxe n can never be a reason to demean, hurt or discriminate against another person.

Deal?

sh76: Okay, but forget about blame.

You're asking Shavix to forget about blame ? He cannot possibly do this, because his entire "analysis" of the mid-east situation, his entire wordlview as a matter of fact, depends on blaming somebody. That's why he cannot and will not discuss any peaceplan in a serious and constructive way, because striving for peace requires giving up the blame game. He simply can't do that.

Originally posted by adam warlock
Do you know the details of the Roadmap to Peace and why Hamas didn't accepted it?

Do you ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Do you ?

I think I do.

Originally posted by sh76
Why would you ever spell out details other than in the course of a negotiation??

Because they are humans lives involved.