Gaza freedom march

Originally posted by scherzo
[b]The stated view of the Palestinians is that they want a settlement based around the 1967 borders.

According to who? Mohammed Dahlan and Khaled Mesha'al?[/b]

That's been the stated position for decades. A 'Palestinian organiser' would be well aware of that.

Originally posted by Redmike
That's been the stated position for decades. A 'Palestinian organiser' would be well aware of that.

You're setting too much store by what Arafat and Abbas say/said. Arafat only recognized Israel in 1988, and Fatah's popularity plummeted.

Originally posted by scherzo
You're setting too much store by what Arafat and Abbas say/said. Arafat only recognized Israel in 1988, and Fatah's popularity plummeted.

It is the stated position of the PNA.

Even Hamas has offered a 10-year truce if the zionists withdraw to the '67 borders.

Originally posted by scherzo
You're setting too much store by what Arafat and Abbas say/said. Arafat only recognized Israel in 1988, and Fatah's popularity plummeted.

And it was 1993, but why worry about the facts,

Originally posted by Redmike
And it was 1993, but why worry about the facts,

He recognized Israel before or during the intifada; can't remember if it was 1986 or 1988. It was definitely before Oslo.

Originally posted by Redmike
It is the stated position of the PNA.

Even Hamas has offered a 10-year truce if the zionists withdraw to the '67 borders.

Of course it's the stated position of the PNA; the PNA is dominated by Fatah.

And I know Hamas offered the truce. I don't like them either.

Originally posted by scherzo
Of course it's the stated position of the PNA; the PNA is dominated by Fatah.

And I know Hamas offered the truce. I don't like them either.

So it is the stated public position of the Palestinians.

You might not like it, but that isn't the point.

The fact that some smaller parties have a different view isn't the point either. The vast majority of the elected representatives of the Palestinians support this view.

People elsewhere should respect this view.

Originally posted by scherzo
He recognized Israel before or during the intifada; can't remember if it was 1986 or 1988. It was definitely before Oslo.

He made a speech in 1988 (to the UN)which tacitly recognised israel's right to exist, but they formally conceded recognition in 1993.

Originally posted by Redmike
So it is the stated public position of the Palestinians.

You might not like it, but that isn't the point.

The fact that some smaller parties have a different view isn't the point either. The vast majority of the elected representatives of the Palestinians support this view.

People elsewhere should respect this view.

If people respect the views of the majority all the time, what's the point of trying to change anything?

Originally posted by Redmike
He made a speech in 1988 (to the UN)which tacitly recognised israel's right to exist, but they formally conceded recognition in 1993.

But he was trying to stop the intifada since it started and he said it had a right to exist in the '80s, so what formally happened or didn't happen is irrelevant.

Originally posted by scherzo
If people respect the views of the majority all the time, what's the point of trying to change anything?

Because, if the Palestinians change their view, then we'd all be expected to support the changed position.

So, from a Palestinian point of view, there's plenty of reasons to try to change things.

I could see your point if there were major alternative platforms within Palestinian society, but there simply aren't.

There is a position which is supported by a huge majority of Palestinian representatives. That has to be accepted as the (current) view of the Palestinians.

Originally posted by scherzo
But he was trying to stop the intifada since it started and he said it had a right to exist in the '80s, so what formally happened or didn't happen is irrelevant.

In international diplomacy, the formalities are very important.

It was 1993 when they formally recognised israel.

Originally posted by Redmike
Because, if the Palestinians change their view, then we'd all be expected to support the changed position.

So, from a Palestinian point of view, there's plenty of reasons to try to change things.

I could see your point if there were major alternative platforms within Palestinian society, but there simply aren't.

There is a position which is supporte ...[text shortened]... lestinian representatives. That has to be accepted as the (current) view of the Palestinians.

52% of Palestinians believe that the peace process is ineffective, according to the Journal of Palestinian Studies. That's over half. And if there's not the peace process, then what is there?

Only rationality and a real hope for peace.

Originally posted by Redmike
In international diplomacy, the formalities are very important.

It was 1993 when they formally recognised israel.

Whatever. Fatah's popularity plummeted between 1988 and 2006.

Originally posted by scherzo
52% of Palestinians believe that the peace process is ineffective, according to the Journal of Palestinian Studies. That's over half. And if there's not the peace process, then what is there?

Only rationality and a real hope for peace.

Doesn't alter the fact that the stated view of the Palestinians is to settle on the basis of the 1967 borders, which is the point.