Originally posted by darthmixWhat essential liberty are we giving up?
Originally posted by smw6869
[b]Do you not think your position on torture would be in anyway a detriment to the ability of the US to gather information on the enemy, or would you rather cut your nose off to spite you face. I'm not talking about gross physical torture. Should we put our military at more risk because of your way of thinking. Do you h ...[text shortened]... t torture and still protect ourselves. We cannot condone torture under any circumstances.
"A little temporary safety".....Put yourself on the front line dude.
You take Ben's words out of context. He was talking about fighting for you freedom against England, instead of putting up with British bull crap and being safe. This had nothing to do with torture. Washington's army was very good at torturing the British.
G.
Originally posted by hamltnblueI've never heard either Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid "bad mouth our Country." I have heard them bad-mouth some of the bad policies of the man in the Oval Office, however. One of the best ways to love your country is to speak out against those that you think are hurting the country. IMO, Mr. Bush is hurting our country.
Having to listen to Pelosi and Harry Reid bad mouth our Country is also torture. Shame Bush didn't say that.
Originally posted by gaychessplayerThe only way not to hear it is not to listen. They attack our country and Military almost daily, Even making up stories about talk show hosts.
I've never heard either Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid "bad mouth our Country." I have heard them bad-mouth some of the bad policies of the man in the Oval Office, however. One of the best ways to love your country is to speak out against those that you think are hurting the country. IMO, Mr. Bush is hurting our country.
Just this week they blatantly offended the Turkish government knowing that the consequences could be an attack on the Kurds and the cut-off of American supply routes. It's now playing out and senators and congressmen of both sides are running like hell away from the issue, but the damage is done. These moves are nothing short of treason and it's about time that something is done about it.
Pelosi and Reid do not speak out against those hurting the country. They attack those that are trying to prevent them from destroying the country. They act like a couple of Stalinist and Hilary is their queen.
Originally posted by smw6869my woody is universal - i'm against all torture
Does the other side have similiar laws against torture? I think it may behoove us to wait until all countries have the same laws. Oh yeah, the terrorists arent a country so they have no such laws. Do you condemn all countries that use torture? .....or do you only have a woody for the US.
G.
Originally posted by PinkFloydMost are. But ask yourself a question to test it. If your mother or closest relative were buried alive with enough air for 2 days, and you were given a chance to save her/him, would you allow a person that knew where she was to be dunked in water? How about stacked naked? Or kept awake for extended periods of time?
my woody is universal - i'm against all torture
How proud your Mother would be of you knowing you wouldn't save her or anyone else in your family because of your beliefs.
When you Judge soldiers you should understand that they see their fellow soldiers as family and brothers, and that that dunk in the water or whatever might save that brother who might be killed the next day if vital information is not received.
Originally posted by smw6869O.K. well you see an outcome which isnt fact. To get to that fact it would seem America would need to win this war in Iraq where everyone would then abide under the same laws. I dont believe that will happen.
I, unlike you, live with no delusions, only Reality.
G.
Originally posted by hamltnbluePlease give me a specific quote by either Mr. Reid or Ms. Pelosi where they "attack our country." Attacking our government's counter-productive and immoral occupation of Iraq is not "attacking our country."
The only way not to hear it is not to listen. They attack our country and Military almost daily, Even making up stories about talk show hosts.
Just this week they blatantly offended the Turkish government knowing that the consequences could be an attack on the Kurds and the cut-off of American supply routes. It's now playing out and senators and congres ...[text shortened]... em from destroying the country. They act like a couple of Stalinist and Hilary is their queen.
Originally posted by PinkFloydThat definition is much too broad. It would imply that everyone in the world is 'tortured' virtually every day.
To cause physical, mental or emotional harm to a human being.
& there can be only 2 reasons why Bush did not answer the question:
he was unable to do so (in which case, the argument that stupid people can't be president is shot all to hell), or
he was unwilling to do so (in which case he tacitly admits that his definition is likely different than most people's).
I haven't ruled out either.
A better definition would have to involve the status of the victim -- he must be imprisoned. He must not be trying to harm his captors or escape.
Under those conditions, if he is placed under physiological discomfort when the captor has then means to avoid such, that to me is where torture starts. 'Mental' torture is harder to define.
Originally posted by MightRightIt would seem to me that Iraq should get it's crap together and see that their real enemy is al-kay-duh, iran, and syria who are keeping this civil war going. You people are suckers. But i'd still vote for you for US pres. over Hillary. Granny loves Iragi gentlemen.
O.K. well you see an outcome which isnt fact. To get to that fact it would seem America would need to win this war in Iraq where everyone would then abide under the same laws. I dont believe that will happen.
G.
Originally posted by PinkFloydWhy be succinct when he is in his 7th year of an exquisitely drawn out infliction of pain and mental anguish on any individual with a heart brain or a soul? Surely a lot of what he does qualifies as a low level torture, so why would you ask a torturer for a definition of the same? Would you ask a thief for a definition of stealing? Would you ask an adulterer to define honesty or to describe their idea of monogamy?
Today, Bush held a news conference and was asked "a simple question": what was his definition of torture? As alsways, he said "The US does not torture. As for the definition, he refrrerred the questioner to US Law, or some such nebulous place. Why can't the man just answer the question and give us HIS definition of torture--- succinctly?
Why would you then ask someone, who has cynically manipulated the people he represents, in part in the way that he uses other peoples perceptions of him to get away with everything, quietly and efficiently operating behind the facade of a buffoon he has been skillful in manufacturing to then give their two cents on a technique that they are too well versed in?