Originally posted by SkorjWhy do you think crystal meth is of a "greater degree" than alcohol?
As far as alcohol vs. crystal meth, it's a matter of degree. I look at it like this: Just as owning a hunting rifle is legal (though subject to some degree of regulation) but owning a Tomahawk missle isn't, so alcohol is legal (though subject to some degree of regulation) but crystal meth isn't.
Originally posted by marinakatombAlcohol causes brain damage, reduced testosterone levels, testicular shrinkage, infertility, immune system suppression, cancer, serious liver damage, high blood pressure, anemia, reduced muscle mass, personality changes, and depression.
Because it causes psychosis which leads to sever depression that alcohol does not.
Am I clear in undersanding that you wish to contend that the effects of cryistal meth, taken as a whole, are no greater than those of alcohol?
Yes. Please note however that I am not committed to the idea that crystal meth is no worse than alcohol; however at this time I see no reason to think it is. I'd love to be educated about it.
Also, any problems associated with lack of purity are the fault of the government's criminalizing the drug as opposed to the effect of the drug itself.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungOf course alcohol, like any other drug, can have negative effects. And like many drugs the worst effects are always suffered by those who develop an addiction to it. At 37 I probably drink less than the average person. Certainly nobody could sensibly suggest that I'm in any way an addict.This in no way changes the fact that I am an alcohol user and have been for nearly 20 years. Substitute crystal meth for the alcohol and I'd have developed an addiction shortly after I started using and there's a good chance that now, 20 yrs later, I wouldn't be alive to be wrining this. That's what I mean by a difference of degree.
Alcohol causes brain damage, reduced testosterone levels, testicular shrinkage, infertility, immune system suppression, cancer, serious liver damage, high blood pressure, anemia, reduced muscle mass, personality changes, and depression.
[b]Am I clear in undersanding that you wish to contend that the effects of cryistal meth, taken as a whole ...[text shortened]... e fault of the government's criminalizing the drug as opposed to the effect of the drug itself.
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"Another example of multiculturalism run amok...these knuckleheads want to drink tea, give 'em lipton..or a one-way ticket back to Brazil...."
Hallucinogen consumption is likely the origin of all religious practice.
It's not addictive. A completely different animal than crack, cocaine, heroin, or crank. As Doctor Evil might say "It's breathtaking, I suggest you try it"...... well, of course there are some types of people who aren't cut out for this kind of experience.
Frankly, Antonin Scalia ...or anyone else so ideologically charged as to proscribe this stuff under the idiotic war on drugs... should be required to ingest the tea or 150 micrograms of LSD before ruling.
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Originally posted by SkorjSubstitute crystal meth for the alcohol and I'd have developed an addiction shortly after I started using and there's a good chance that now, 20 yrs later, I wouldn't be alive to be wrining this.
Of course alcohol, like any other drug, can have negative effects. And like many drugs the worst effects are always suffered by those who develop an addiction to it. At 37 I probably drink less than the average person. Certainly nobody could ...[text shortened]... be wrining this. That's what I mean by a difference of degree.
On what basis do you make this claim? Crystal meth is not physically addictive. Do you think for some reason the psychological addiction potential of CM is so strong as to outweigh the combination of physical and psychological addiction potentials of alcohol?
Originally posted by AThousandYoungCrystal Meth is not physically addictive? OK, who cares whether it's psychologically or physically addictive...that's moot. What's importatnt is what it's doing to people all over the world. Check out this website: www.stopmethaddiction.com/user-news.htm
[b]Substitute crystal meth for the alcohol and I'd have developed an addiction shortly after I started using and there's a good chance that now, 20 yrs later, I wouldn't be alive to be wrining this.
On what basis do you make this claim? Crystal meth is not physically addictive. Do you think for some reason the psychological addiction potent ...[text shortened]... ng as to outweigh the combination of physical and psychological addiction potentials of alcohol?[/b]
Originally posted by AThousandYoungWhy would you think the kind of addiction is more important than the simple fact that meth is far more powerfully addictive than alcohol? It's also much easier to overdose on and can lead to health problems much faster. None of this is secret information; you don't have to go to the site Chance suggests, just Google.
[b]Substitute crystal meth for the alcohol and I'd have developed an addiction shortly after I started using and there's a good chance that now, 20 yrs later, I wouldn't be alive to be wrining this.
On what basis do you make this claim? Crystal meth is not physically addictive. Do you think for some reason the psychological addiction potent ...[text shortened]... ng as to outweigh the combination of physical and psychological addiction potentials of alcohol?[/b]
Originally posted by SkorjChancre's site didn't work.
Why would you think the kind of addiction is more important than the simple fact that meth is far more powerfully addictive than alcohol? It's also much easier to overdose on and can lead to health problems much faster. None of this is secret information; you don't have to go to the site Chance suggests, just Google.
I asked on what basis you made the claim that CM is more addictive than alcohol. Your response - 'CM is more addictive than alcohol.'
I'm asking you to justify that claim, not make it over and over and over...
Originally posted by AThousandYoungOriginally posted by AThousandYoung
Chancre's site didn't work.
I asked on what basis you made the claim that CM is more addictive than alcohol. Your response - 'CM is more addictive than alcohol.'
I'm asking you to justify that claim, not make it over and over and over...
Chancre's site didn't work.
It worked just fine for me. It's the site of a rehab centre so you may think it would be in their interest to exagerate things, but what I read there jibes with what I've read elsewhere. Check out more than just the news page.
I asked on what basis you made the claim that CM is more addictive than alcohol.
There's no objective measure of addictive potential that I'm aware of. Subjectively meth is described as "highly" to "extremely" addictive, based on evidence such as:
"A study showed that given an unlimited supply of the drug (Meth), the animal will self-administer methamphetamine until its toxic effects cause death. This study reflects predictive human behavior using animal models that will self-administer in cyclic patterns just like humans using Meth do."
(NIDA:College on Problems of Drug Dependencešharmacology & Abuse Implications of Methamphetamine)
In the absence of objective measures I suppose one is free to claim there is no reason to belive the Titanic was larger than the S.S. Minow, but this is less an argument than a reason to question the claimant's mental function.
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Originally posted by SkorjIf I copy and paste this into my address bar,
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Chancre's site didn't work.
It worked just fine for me. It's the site of a rehab centre so you may think it would be in their interest to exagerate things, but what I read there jibes with ...[text shortened]... rgument than a reason to question the claimant's mental function.[/b]
http://www.stopmethaddiction.com/user-news.htm
I get this error:
Error: Invalid Article Reference.
If I remove the section after .com I can get to the site.
The "meth addiction" link on that site makes sense based on my limited experience. I snorted the drug, and I suppose I'd be a "low intensity abuser" though I don't feel I "abused" the drug. "User" would be more appropriate in my opinion, but that is a matter of opinion.
The first sentence in your quote from the mouse study seems convincing as evidence that it would be easier to OD to death on CM than alcohol, but I wouldn't say it describes addiction. It makes sense; alcohol makes you puke and knocks you out, so it would be harder to kill yourself with it. The second sentence does describe addiction, but does not in any way talk about how addictive the drug is. Studies with mice and alcohol have shown that mice also get addicted to alcohol in a similar way as humans do.
Your Titanic/Minnow comment seems totally irrelevant as far as I can tell. Can you clarify what you mean?
Originally posted by AThousandYoungYes, I drive my wife crazy with annalogies like this so if it's any consolation at least you don't live with me. What I meant was that if we simply saw the two ships side by side we wouldn't need to measure length or tonnage to tell which is the larger ship. Likewise, camparing the path of addiction and the stories of those who have become addicts and comparing this to what we know about alcoholism we don't need an objective measure to tell us which is more addictive.
Your Titanic/Minnow comment seems totally irrelevant as far as I can tell. Can you clarify what you mean?
To be sure, meth usage is complex and its power and effects differ depending on how it is used so arguably things aren't that clear-cut. In a sense, it's too bad you can't distinguish between meth meant to be smoked and meth meant to be snorted or ingested because I'd view the issues around them differently.
Originally posted by SkorjSo Skorj, what are your views about the tea? Do you consider it to be as threatening as Meth or is it closer to alcohol? Would you ban it or not?
Yes, I drive my wife crazy with annalogies like this so if it's any consolation at least you don't live with me. What I meant was that if we simply saw the two ships side by side we wouldn't need to measure length or tonnage to tell which is the larger ship. Likewise, camparing the path of addiction and the stories of those who have become addicts and compa ...[text shortened]... d and meth meant to be snorted or ingested because I'd view the issues around them differently.