Coletti quit being silly. I was having a very interesting discussion with flyU. You clearly have no interest in such pursuits, and I have grown tiresome of your childish games.
Your rat analogy for example.
Rats become aggressive and attack the weak in their ranks when enclosed in a cramped space.
The public school system is like this. It makes kids behave like rats.
Ans: Make schools larger?
Or maybe you mean the following:
Lab cages that have too little space cause rats to attack each other.
Public schools have too little morals which causes kids to behave like rats.
Well, there is no answer for such a silly analogy, but if you insist then I have an analogy of similar quality for you.
Some female spiders eat their mates after copulation.
Like the female spider Calvanists beat their wives.
Ok, been fun Col. I'll get back to my real discussions.
Originally posted by telerionI'm not really happy with the idea the state feels the need to teach
I think that in some cases your criticism does apply. Public school boards can be ultra-sensitive about offending people or violating rights. Sometimes in an attempt to comply with the law, they actually violate the rights of a student (It always seems to happen with T-shirts for some reason).
As far as an extremist perspective, I have a hard time be ...[text shortened]... dards. I wonder though, which specific moral systems do you think public schools attack?
morals at all, let alone which one. Shouldn't that be left up to the
parents, period? After all as you take up one set of morals you
displace another.
Kelly
Originally posted by wucky3I've a first cousin who is a lawyer who was home schooled through high
obviously we're worlds apart Kelly..maybe it's a culture thing I don't know. i don't know or have ever known anyone that has been taught at home..Do americans have parents on the board of governers in schools. maybe parents here get more involved in the school than americans do?
school. I do believe we can with public schools find good and bad
examples as we can with home schools. I agree it does matter on the
effort applied to teach, what is being taught, the level of expertise on
subjects some more than others, and other things.
There are plenty of variables on what makes either home school or
public schools good or bad. I just don’t think that we can say simply
because kids are home schooled they are going to be deficient, or to
be fair because they are in public school the same thing can be said.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI think that unconditionally speaking you are correct.
I've a first cousin who is a lawyer who was home schooled through high
school. I do believe we can with public schools find good and bad
examples as we can with home schools. I agree it does matter on the
effort applied to teach, what is being taught, the level of expertise on
subjects some more than others, and other things.
There are plenty of var ...[text shortened]... deficient, or to
be fair because they are in public school the same thing can be said.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayPerhaps you are right. Although surely a school should at least teach some ethical principles. Share. Listen to others. Obey your teachers. Respect your parents. Work hard so that you can be a good citizen. Stuff like that.
I'm not really happy with the idea the state feels the need to teach
morals at all, let alone which one. Shouldn't that be left up to the
parents, period? After all as you take up one set of morals you
displace another.
Kelly
I agree that schools should not be telling kids which god(s) to believe/not believe in. As I have said before (hint, hint Col) parents who disagree with the curriculum in their public school should have the right to teach their children themselves. More often than not though I think this turns out to be a mistake if the teaching is done in every year of the child's education.
I am wondering though, "Is their a particular set of morals that you think that the public school system attacks"? I think that you implied this in your last post.
Well, for every spelling bee winner and SAT overachiever, there are hundreds of "victims" of homeschooling.
As a bookstore manager, I had to deal with these homeschoolers often. They would want an educators discount for everything they bought, even if it was a Danielle Steel novel. They were usually rude, and their children were generally poorly behaved.
My wife, an educator, has had to clean up the messes that these people often visit on their children. Homeschooled kids tend to have poor social skills, no respect for authority (since Mommy was their teacher at home) and no sort of balanced knowledge and skills. Unskilled at-home educators tend to teach what they know and/or what the kids like. So, you will get second graders who can read like college students but not so simple math.
OTOH, I do know a couple who are homeschooling their children, but they are both professional educators (college professors). They run home school like a real school with actual curriculum. Their children are also very involved in outside activities, so they do get their socialization.
Another friend of mine suppliments regular school work for her child, but that child is a certified genius.
Originally posted by CalWriterJust so I know, do you believe that there are "victims" of the public
Well, for every spelling bee winner and SAT overachiever, there are hundreds of "victims" of homeschooling.
As a bookstore manager, I had to deal with these homeschoolers often. They would want an educators discount for everything they bought, even if it was a Danielle Steel novel. They were usually rude, and their children were generally poorly beh ...[text shortened]... of mine suppliments regular school work for her child, but that child is a certified genius.
school system? You believe that children who pass through the
public schools will avoid such things as, parents who will want discounts
on all things they can get, rudeness, poor behavior, respect for
authority, bad social skills, and so on?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayGiven the spurious variables problem that I discussed earlier, I think the kids that excel in homeschool would probably also excel in public schools. The kids who struggle in public school would most likely struggle if they were taught by their parents.
Just so I know, do you believe that there are "victims" of the public
school system? You believe that children who pass through the
public schools will avoid such things as, parents who will want discounts
on all things they can get, rudeness, poor behavior, respect for
authority, bad social skills, and so on?
Kelly
In the case of special needs kids (both challenged and exceptionally gifted), the condition has more weight then the omitted factors and so my claim does not apply to them.
Originally posted by KellyJayLaw is morality; if the state fails to promote some standards of morality, anarchy results.
I'm not really happy with the idea the state feels the need to teach
morals at all, let alone which one. Shouldn't that be left up to the
parents, period? After all as you take up one set of morals you
displace another.
Kelly
The real argument concerns the specifics: whether consensual sex between and among three grown me, and two women (all together) is acceptable, for example. As well as whether, someone so engaged privately should be permitted to work with children during the daytime.
Originally posted by WulebgrThe real argument concerns the specifics: whether consensual sex between and among three grown me, and two women (all together) is acceptable, for example. As well as whether, someone so engaged privately should be permitted to work with children during the daytime.
Law is morality; if the state fails to promote some standards of morality, anarchy results.
The real argument concerns the specifics: whether consensual sex between and among three grown me, and two women (all together) is acceptable, for example. As well as whether, someone so engaged privately should be permitted to work with children during the daytime.
Is that taken from an actual case?
And conditioning on nothing more then the fact that these people have engaged in consenting group sex among adults, I see no reason why they should be unfit for teaching school children.
Why should that be disqualifying, but the youth pastor/xtian school teacher who watches adult group sex on his computer to ejaculate be qualified?
Originally posted by KellyJayYes, I believe there are problems in public education, but I think teachers are scapegoated. When people recall the "ideallic, Beaver-Cleaver" past, they don't take into account that children then arrived at school better prepared and with much less baggage. Many teacher today spend as much time being social-workers (out of necessity, not-training) than they do teaching.
Just so I know, do you believe that there are "victims" of the public
school system? You believe that children who pass through the
public schools will avoid such things as, parents who will want discounts
on all things they can get, rudeness, poor behavior, respect for
authority, bad social skills, and so on?
Kelly
I think the real problem in education now is that the most capable students are not nurtured and encouraged enough.
Originally posted by CalWriterI agree all the teachers I know I think are outstanding people who
Yes, I believe there are problems in public education, but I think teachers are scapegoated. When people recall the "ideallic, Beaver-Cleaver" past, they don't take into account that children then arrived at school better prepared and with much less baggage. Many teacher today spend as much time being social-workers (out of necessity, not-training) th ...[text shortened]... lem in education now is that the most capable students are not nurtured and encouraged enough.
care deeply about that they are trying to do, teach. I'm sure that
examples can be brought out that says otherwise, but all in all
I'll say they are the exceptions not the rule. I'll say that home
school parents can be divided into good and bad too, I would
not want to paint them all as bad, and say the exceptions are
the odd ball good ones.
Kelly
Originally posted by CalWriterActually those kids are nasty little public school kids - playing hooky and lying to you to get the education discount. 😉
.... They would want an educators discount for everything they bought, even if it was a Danielle Steel novel. They were usually rude, and their children were generally poorly behaved....
Thankfully, anecdotal evidence is the weakest kind.
I've worked with many homeschoolers and found them to be far more respectful and well behaved. Where most of the public school kids make a point of lying and being disrespectful to impress their friends.
Ironically, we've had both public and private school kids working at the store, but the public school kids were fired for shoplifting - the homeschool kids are still working.
But experience is not proof, and I've know exceptions in both groups.