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f

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I'm just wondering why so many people I meet are anti homeschoolers. They seem to be way better off in life at least where i am, I know a employer who only will hire homeshoolers because he knows they are usually honest, and as far as education, I think homschoolers won the national spelling bee several years in a row. The highest 2 ppl who took the SAT exam in the state id ID are homschoolers, lol once I went to a spelling bee when I was in 3rd grade, and competed against the whole middle school I came in first once, and second the other time, me and my sister I think was the only homeschoolers.

so how many here favor it or disfavor it?

IMO a good parent will home school their children, instead of just sending them to school and having others babysit their children

X
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Originally posted by flyUnity
I'm just wondering why so many people I meet are anti homeschoolers. They seem to be way better off in life at least where i am, I know a employer who only will hire homeshoolers because he knows they are usually honest, and as far as education, I think homschoolers won the national spelling bee several years in a row. The highest 2 ppl who took the SAT ex ...[text shortened]... their children, instead of just sending them to school and having others babysit their children
But good parents aren't the only ones that decide to homeschool their children. The bad ones homeschool them and infect their impressionable minds with their bigotry and misconceptions.

Don't get me wrong some homeschooled children come out of it well ahead (I got creamed by a 12 year old kid in a chess tournament last year who was homeschooled) in academic standings but I know a few and they are the least well-adjusted people I know.

x

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Originally posted by flyUnity
I'm just wondering why so many people I meet are anti homeschoolers. They seem to be way better off in life at least where i am, I know a employer who only will hire homeshoolers because he knows they are usually honest, and as far as education, I think homschoolers won the national spelling bee several years in a row. The highest 2 ppl who took the SAT ex ...[text shortened]... their children, instead of just sending them to school and having others babysit their children
Actually i think its better for children to have mass interaction with other people of differing races and cultures... rather than live a sheltered life... education asside... i have about a kazillion more friends that i see every where i go.. thanks to school...

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Originally posted by xxxenophobe
Actually i think its better for children to have mass interaction with other people of differing races and cultures... rather than live a sheltered life... education asside... i have about a kazillion more friends that i see every where i go.. thanks to school...
I disagree, I have allot of homschooler friends, and none of them are into drugs, alcohol, and they stay out of trouble, IMO when sending a kid to public school, your sending them to a wrong crowd

t
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Originally posted by flyUnity
I disagree, I have allot of homschooler friends, and none of them are into drugs, alcohol, and they stay out of trouble, IMO when sending a kid to public school, your sending them to a wrong crowd
I've gone to public school and private school (both parochial and secular), and I have been homeschooled. Naturally, I had plenty of friends from each category.

I think you're view of homeschooling is incredibly skewed. As far as spelling bee champions and junior chess champs and the like, there is a selection bias going on. Often the parents of these children chose to homeschool them because they had such talent. The flexible schedule that comes with homeschooling allows the child to focus more attention on developing their particular talent. In this way, the child is molded to be exceptional at their one particular task. That does not mean that the child's education is well-rounded or that they will be successful in life.

You also brought up that the two 1600 SAT students in ID one year were high schoolers. Should this surprise us? There are 50 states and many years in which the test is administered. Eventually one would expect for a homeschooler to get a 1600.

Moreover, the material on the SAT and ACT is pretty easy. The challenge is learning how to take the test. These standardized exams are in no way the best indicator of how well-educated a child is. Any reasonably competent student can train for these tests and significantly raise their scores without learning anything other then strategies for the SAT or ACT. Given that colleges place more emphasis on the College Board Exams when considering homeschooled applicants, it is not surprising that these families would put more effort into doing well on them.

Now anecdotally, while one close friend of mine who was homeschooled through high school had marginal success (went to a mid-tier liberal arts school and did a good job), the overwhelming majority did not do well at all in a scholastic sense. Very few of them went on to post-high school education, and those that did went to community colleges. Many also suffered from severe home attachment.

In almost every case where a homeschooler was introduced into a public or private school before completing high school, the child struggled. This usually was because while the student acceled at a particular subject (spelling for example), they were very deficient in others (nearly always science!). Three of my siblings were homeschooled until high school. Not one of them made it through the 10th grade. In their case, they could handle most of the work, but difficulties integrating with the student body pushed them to find acceptance with the wrong kinds of kids.

Oh yeah, all of these experiences with homeschoolers took place in ID.

So why would I not home school my kids?

This question is a bit mistated. I already supplement my four-year-old daughter's education with some home instruction. I discuss all sorts of interesting facts about the world with her, work on her on reading and math, and encourage her do art. I will always do this to make sure that she excels.

Nevertheless, if we take homeschooling to only mean that my daughter stays at home and takes all of her courses at home, then I have no intention of doing her such an injustice. As an economist I could never face myself. It's a matter of specialization. While I could easily teach her mathematics, grammar, and literature, I could not teach history as well as most public school teachers. The same goes for most sciences. In fact, science is even worse, because most public schools (especially the ones I'll be sending my daughter to) have the money to purchase labs. There is no way that I can compete with that.

And why would I ever want to compete? In the case of every homeschooler I knew, the motivation behind the parent's decision was a distortedly critical view of the American public school system (ironically, they never distinguished the particular public school in their district from the 'American public school system' in general). They always objected for religious reasons; and, in every case, they taught their child from extremist curriculums (e.g. A Beka, Bill Gothard, Bob Jones) that taught their children all sorts of falsehoods.

Basically, home schooling could be OK for a few children (celebrities with busy extracurricular schedules, some students who are falling through the cracks at other schools, kids in very remote areas), but for intelligent, motivated kids schooling outside of home should be preferred. There they will have more resources available, and the parents can provide extra tutoring after school when necessary/desired.

Bottom line: My order of preference from most preferred to least preferred is as follows: elite secular private school, well-funded public school, private parochial school (accredited), home school.

My daughter is just too intelligent to be handicapped by her parents knowledge and resources.

Oh yeah, quite of few of these home schoolers also experimented with drugs and alchohol at some point.

W
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I agree with a lot of telerion's comments, although he exagerrates a couple points.

I am home schooling my youngest son at present, and I teach chess in a homeschool classroom setting (where homeschoolers get some social interaction, exposure to teachers other than their parents, and parents get support and materials from one another).

The vast majority of the homeschoolers I know are motivated at least in part by religious beliefs, and for most that means they will become deficient in biology, anthropology, and certain areas of history. Most, however, are bright and motivated to learn. They will do well. Many end up at community college not because they are unprepared for four year institutions, but because they earn a GED, rather than a diploma.

My reasons for homeschooling have nothing to do with religion. In fact, he is reading Darwin in the eight grade, while his 7th grade science teacher at a public school danced around and avoided evolution, covertly (I suspected) introducing her creationist ideas in a setting where that would be considered unacceptable by the school board, but not most of the community.

The main problem with the middle school I took my son out of was an absence of academic focus, and loads of violence to and from school, and at lunch. Homeschooling protects him from the drugs and gangs that run rampant, and if he does one hour of quality work each day, his academic progress will exceed expectations at his old school.

Still, I'll probably put him back in public school next year because he needs a variety of teachers. If I lived in a different neighborhood, he would have stayed in school all along.

f

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Originally posted by telerion
I've gone to public school and private school (both parochial and secular), and I have been homeschooled. Naturally, I had plenty of friends from each category.

I think you're view of homeschooling is skewed incredibly . As far as spelling bee champions and junior chess champs and the like, there is a selection bias going on. Often the parents of ...[text shortened]... quite of few of these home schoolers also experimented with drugs and alchohol at some point.
http://www.cfw.tufts.edu/topic/3/71.htm
http://www.homelifeacademy.com/homeschool_stats.php

look at the facts and do a search on Google, Homeschoolers average a grade ahead then their peers, They are more sussesful in life as a whole, They get in less trouble, and less drugs and alchohol. and watch less TV

Studies of social adjustment and self-esteem indicate that home-educated students are likely to be socially and psychologically healthy (Montgomery, 1989; Shyers, 1992; Taylor, 1986). Homeschooled students tend to have a broader age-range of friends than their schooled peers, which may encourage maturity and leadership skills (Montgomery, 1989). Homeschoolers are not necessarily isolated from others of their age; they meet and socialize with peers in their neighborhood and at community classes and activities

Aslo when homschooling, it dont limit to what the parents know, I excelled for beyond my my mom did, That more depends what Home school course one uses. I am againts homschoolers that dont use a actual course and try to teach only from what they know

In my county the homeschool rate is incredably high. And I can see a big difference between the 2 groups. One of my friends was failing in High school, so the parents took him out and homeschooled him, he was a slow learner, (Like Thomas Edison) but after a while He suceeded and now he is making more money then his whole class, and that just one example, From what I see here where I live, Homeschoolers are way ahead of their peers, Of course it may be different in other states.

Also your veiw on "A Beka, Bill Gothard, Bob Jones" is skewed some, While Bill Gothard, Bob Jones courses teach from a christian standpoint, I think its the parent choice what course they should teach their children.

Allot of parents use public schools as a babysitter

w
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Originally posted by flyUnity
http://www.cfw.tufts.edu/topic/3/71.htm
http://www.homelifeacademy.com/homeschool_stats.php

look at the facts and do a search on Google, Homeschoolers average a grade ahead then their peers, They are more sussesful in life as a whole, They get in less trouble, and less drugs and alchohol. and watch less TV

Studies of social adjustment and self-esteem ...[text shortened]... e they should teach their children.

Allot of parents use public schools as a babysitter

Allot of parents use public schools as a babysitter ...

..not all parents can afford not to work to homeschool. homeschooling isn't widely practiced as far as i know in the uk anyway.

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Originally posted by Wulebgr
I agree with a lot of telerion's comments, although he exagerrates a couple points.

I am home schooling my youngest son at present, and I teach chess in a homeschool classroom setting (where homeschoolers get some social interaction, exposure to teachers other than their parents, and parents get support and materials from one another).

The vast majori ...[text shortened]... y of teachers. If I lived in a different neighborhood, he would have stayed in school all along.
I agree with most of you post. I myself leaned Evolution from a secular course, and creation from a different course, and I choose creation lol

About the GED thing, Most homeschoolers get their diploma if they go through a commercial course, (Like I did) But diploma's are becoming less useful. most collages require a GED or SAT etc.

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Originally posted by wucky3
Allot of parents use public schools as a babysitter ...

..not all parents can afford not to work to homeschool. homeschooling isn't widely practiced as far as i know in the uk anyway.
yea, I have no clue about the UK, but it is sad when parents put work in front of their children, IMO Parents shouldnt sacrafice their child's well-being for money

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Originally posted by flyUnity
I disagree, I have allot of homschooler friends, and none of them are into drugs, alcohol, and they stay out of trouble, IMO when sending a kid to public school, your sending them to a wrong crowd
Thats half the fun.. .. duhhh... but i ment other social interaction.. why do you think when people mention other races and cultures.. drigs and crime.. hmm.... hmm...

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Originally posted by xxxenophobe
Thats half the fun.. .. duhhh... but i ment other social interaction.. why do you think when people mention other races and cultures.. drigs and crime.. hmm.... hmm...
lol, I rest my case 😛

Edit: I missed your edit

KellyJay
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Originally posted by Wulebgr
I agree with a lot of telerion's comments, although he exagerrates a couple points.

I am home schooling my youngest son at present, and I teach chess in a homeschool classroom setting (where homeschoolers get some social interaction, exposure to teachers other than their parents, and parents get support and materials from one another).

The vast majori ...[text shortened]... y of teachers. If I lived in a different neighborhood, he would have stayed in school all along.
You are worried that someone is pushing what they think is correct
or true in the class they teach. You said that was what you did, didn't
you in another post? I guess it is only good when people agree with
your bias isn't it? Still waiting on those science papers.
Kelly

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I think there are several categories of "homeschooling." Let me list the ones I see.

1) Children who are largley asian and highly motivated. There have been some on this site and they will be highly successful no doubt.

2) Children whose parents are afraid of "outside influences" such as evolution and cultural problems of youth today. They may also want their children to have religious indoctrination as part of their edkucation.

3) Early drop-out program. I have first hand experiencing seeing this in the area where I live. It occurs largely in Appalachia and homeschooling is nothing more than part of extreme family enmeshment to keep the children dumb so they will never leave home and end up on disability for being stupid.

So, in short, there is a spectrum of homeschooling. In my opinion, parents of #3 should go to jail.

t
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look at the facts and do a search on Google, Homeschoolers average a grade ahead then their peers,

Problems with grade reports are that they are done by the parents for homeschoolers and by the public school for the other kids. Because homeschooling is generally much less structured, there is a lot of wiggle room for parents when reporting grade level. Johnny is 12 and does 7th grade math, 5th grade reading, and 6th grade science. Mom may be tempted to call Johnny a 7th grade student. It also does not help that many of the home schooling curricula have two grade levels (6/7 math, or 4/5 reading). Given the choice of course a parent is going to put a little upward bias on the response.

They are more sussesful in life as a whole, They get in less trouble, and less drugs and alchohol. and watch less TV
[/b]

This may be true. I noticed however that according to the National Center for Educational Statistics (NCES), part of the US Department of Education, the parents of homeschooled children had higher education on average than did those of kids in public school. They also overwhelming came from two parent families. Rudner (1999) found that the median income level of homeschoolers was higher than that of public schoolers. While the NCES did not find a significant difference in income, they considered different indicators. This all indicates to me that there may be a statistical bias in your claim. You need to show causality rather than just correlation. Is it that homeschooling produces these effects? Or is it that these other factors which usually produce the effects you describe are statistically much more prevalent in home schoolers than in public schoolers?

Studies of social adjustment and self-esteem indicate that home-educated students are likely to be socially and psychologically healthy (Montgomery, 1989; Shyers, 1992; Taylor, 1986). Homeschooled students tend to have a broader age-range of friends than their schooled peers, which may encourage maturity and leadership skills (Montgomery, 1989). Homeschoolers are not necessarily isolated from others of their age; they meet and socialize with peers in their neighborhood and at community classes and activities


Didn't your mom teach you not to plagerize? Let a prep school boy show you how. 🙂

http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content4/homeschool.gifted.html
I also noticed that all of the articles you chose to site come the National Home Education Research Institute, a very pro-homeschooling organization.

Aslo when homschooling, it dont limit to what the parents know, I excelled for beyond my my mom did, That more depends what Home school course one uses.

Excuse me?

I am againts homschoolers that dont use a actual course and try to teach only from what they know

Recollecting what I witnessed, this always meant that the parent read ahead of the student just a bit and then told the student to go do their work from the coursebook. As the student developed, this method was replaced by "go read the book and come back if you have a question." Hell, I basically taught myself from those curriculums for two years. And yes when I was administered the Iowa basic skills test in those years, I was off the charts (and my mother ordered a test 3 years above my actual paper grade level), but this was not because I was homeschooled. I was homeschooled for those years partly because I was gifted. We lived in a remote area in Idaho and the public school only went through 8th grade. Nevertheless, I had outstanding IBS test scores while in that public school as well.

In my county the homeschool rate is incredably high. And I can see a big difference between the 2 groups. One of my friends was failing in High school, so the parents took him out and homeschooled him, he was a slow learner, (Like Thomas Edison) but after a while He suceeded and now he is making more money then his whole class, and that just one example, From what I see here where I live, Homeschoolers are way ahead of their peers, Of course it may be different in other states.

Perhaps your county has a terrible public school system (you're in Wyoming after all). In this case, homeschooling may be preferable. This is especially true if your friend had special learning needs. As far as his making more money than his classmates, I couldn't really take much from that without knowing a lot more information about your county and his background and opportunities.

Also your veiw on "A Beka, Bill Gothard, Bob Jones" is skewed some, While Bill Gothard, Bob Jones courses teach from a christian standpoint, I think its the parent choice what course they should teach their children.

Don't forget A Beka.
http://www.abeka.com/OurFoundation.html

Of course, it is the parents choice. I'm not criticizing their right to have a choice. I'm saying that all the homeschoolers that I knew made terrible choices when choosing their curriculum. They seemed to care more about the religious method than whether the facts were correct.

Allot of parents use public schools as a babysitter

So? Are we discussing the quality of education from homeschooling versus from other methods or are we discussing how much time good parents should spend with their kids? Why is your statement relevant?

Again, I think private secular prep schools have both of them beat hands down, but we are not all so lucky as to have the money or get scholarships to attend them.

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