@jj-adams saidYes, I think we all know it can never be the same.
@AverageJoe1
I don't care what the wall would have cost, all I care about is that my country is being invaded by the 20+ nations south of us by the millions, with no end in sight.
Even worse, they are instantly given full medical benefits and free housing, which we don't get, along with money/food stamps, etc.
In another generation that will be all that is left of America....
It has all changed our relevance, our thinking. Look at this new article, $60,000 per tent for these people illegally in our country. None of our lib friends will step up on these issues. Makes me sad in a way. Like, who here would we like to have a beer with?
Look at this story.
https://nypost.com/2021/06/26/san-francisco-run-homeless-encampment-costs-60k-per-tentsan-francisco-run-homeless-encampment-costs-60k-per-tent/
@averagejoe1 saidThe existence of a parade is not the tell . It's the purpose of the parade. Are you celebrating the leader or the results of leadership?
Well, is that not a realistic thought, presidents in parades.? You were OK with FDR, Kennedy, Carter, et al. Biden, I think he has been in a parade.
So you feign disdain for parades, fooling no one, being obvious that you lost your ass on this debate. This would be a great opportunity to get some street** creds if you just admit you were wrong. That you lost to ...[text shortened]... . Think I will lock my door and get under the cover.
Biden owns this, you know. What a shyte
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@wajoma saidPhilosophical areas with no basic in the real world, which your insulting comment about me "sacrificing other people to your dream feelings" is, doesn't really matter when the world is as it is. We must look towards what societies are providing the best living standards for it's people. Those are the welfare ones.
lundos copy/pastes some unrelated stats ("How to Lie with Statistics;" Darrell Huff) and thinks he's way up the intellectual ladder, can't even see how the numbers don't help. Talks about personal attacks while posting personal attacks.
"Genuine benevolence" to be fair the word 'benevolence' should not need the word 'genuine' tacked onto the front of it, hence your confusio ...[text shortened]... ine benevolence and community. After all they already 'gave' when picking up their weekly paycheck.
I understand that examples from small communities on how we could live and help each other and the best examples from history would make a nice world. However, I just googled Friendly Society and it seems to be a localized financial safety measure more than anything else. The state is supposed to that on a larger scale.
I think our biggest disagreement is how we see how people behave and how society is built. Small communities like it used to doesn't exits any more. At least not in the bigger cities. We are too many people. How, then, would you govern?
Should the government not help the weakest in society? If it's up to the local community who would be in charge? Who defines the scope of each community?
Who would make sure each community is genuine benevolent?
@wildgrass saidGiven, that none of us like Trump personality, or much about him. Me included. That out of the way, I would not celebrate Trump, but I would celebrate his accomplishments, and celebrate in advance what he will do if he becomes president in 2024. I would celebrate his leadership, yes.
The existence of a parade is not the tell . It's the purpose of the parade. Are you celebrating the leader or the results of leadership?
My parade reference was a metaphor of sorts, but I forgot you and jester don't get such statements.
@wajoma saidWajoma: And by 'violent' we should include in this category those that once arrived make use of goobermint thugs to make me pay for their health, education, housing and reluctance to work and provide for themselves.
In a libertarian society, you're right, borders would be basically open with "let peaceful people cross borders freely".
I would say the NZ/Australia situation being close to the ideal. If I want to work in Australia I jump on a plane (maskless) tomorrow and go and find a job in Aus. Australia has become quite active in deporting NZ violent criminals back to NZ recently. ...[text shortened]... grant being discussed here. If the immigrant is truly peaceful, legal or illegal, there is no cost.
That's a strange reimagining of the word "violent". Taken to its logical conclusion, it means anyone who supports social welfare programs paid for at public expense is "violent" and that the State would be justified in using force against such people.
Is that your vision of "libertarianism" i.e that State force is justified against those who advocate the modern democratic, social welfare society in order to implement a laissez faire economic system?
@no1marauder saidLOL…lets count the times 💩weasel says this “laissez faire”
Wajoma: And by 'violent' we should include in this category those that once arrived make use of goobermint thugs to make me pay for their health, education, housing and reluctance to work and provide for themselves.
That's a strange reimagining of the word "violent". Taken to its logical conclusion, it means anyone who supports social welfare programs paid for at publi ...[text shortened]... the modern democratic, social welfare society in order to implement a laissez faire economic system?
bombast is all he has left
@mott-the-hoople saidDo you even know what it means?
LOL…lets count the times 💩weasel says this “laissez faire”
bombast is all he has left
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@averagejoe1 saidYou're not fooling anyone, MAGA Joe.
Given, that none of us like Trump personality, or much about him. Me included.
Should the government not help the weakest in society?Yes, but the problem that we seem to have on the forum is different definitions for certain ideas or things or concepts.
I think I am one of the most conservative persons on the Forum, yet I have no problem with helping the weakest in society...I have said 50 times that govt statistics say there are 40M destitute, and I think the government should cover them.
So put me in the yes column. Now, what is your answer to my answer? What else would you have of me?
@shallow-blue saidSo you are on Sonhouse's bandwagon, it is he who thinks I am all about Trump. ( I AM about MAGA, though, altho I sadly believe that it is too late. Have you seen the news?)
You're not fooling anyone, MAGA Joe.
@no1marauder saidSomething about allowing people to do things? Same thing I have been saying for years, for govt to leave us the hell alone. That’s it.
Do you even know what it means?
So, what is the question?
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@no1marauder saidYou have a right to live your life free from force, threats of force and fraud.
Wajoma: And by 'violent' we should include in this category those that once arrived make use of goobermint thugs to make me pay for their health, education, housing and reluctance to work and provide for themselves.
That's a strange reimagining of the word "violent". Taken to its logical conclusion, it means anyone who supports social welfare programs paid for at publi ...[text shortened]... the modern democratic, social welfare society in order to implement a laissez faire economic system?
Your social welfare dream feeling laws are backed by the threat of force. And there are people who have made a principled stand against your immorality that have experienced the threat of force taken to the next level. I happen to believe a mugger has no more right to threaten you with force, than if that mugger belonged to a gang of 500, 50 000 or 5 000 000.
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@lundos saidThe welfare state rides on the back of prosperity created by others. Probably when I was first struck by this reality was the Aussie Unions negotiating conditions for workers downwards, The first years of my working life were spent huddled around the union smoko table whingeing about how employers were screwing us and without the union there'd be no sick leave. A few years into being an independent contractor and 'bam' the realisation, it was the market that determined the rate. And the hourly rate as an independent contractor versus union labor with all their conditions became apparent. And so when the Aussie Unions saw the inevitable closure of the car industry in Australia loomihg, they started trying reduce the inflated conditions of their members so as to maintain all those lovely membership dues.
Philosophical areas with no basic in the real world, which your insulting comment about me "sacrificing other people to your dream feelings" is, doesn't really matter when the world is as it is. We must look towards what societies are providing the best living standards for it's people. Those are the welfare ones.
I understand that examples from small communities on how we ...[text shortened]... Who defines the scope of each community?
Who would make sure each community is genuine benevolent?
Your blind state worship will go the way of other religions one day, we wont see it in our lifetime but I have every confidence what is right and moral will win in the end.
@wajoma saidSo no answers, a random story about localized unions, a straw man and some insults.
The welfare state rides on the back of prosperity created by others. Probably when I was first struck by this reality was the Aussie Unions negotiating conditions for workers downwards, The first years of my working life were spent huddled around the union smoko table whingeing about how employers were screwing us and without the union there'd be no sick leave. A few years i ...[text shortened]... wont see it in our lifetime but I have every confidence what is right and moral will win in the end.
You know, statistics will not be on your side in this. Neither will history. We can discuss theory, but that doesn't really matter if it's as unrealistic as communism.