@lundos saidNo straw man, it was analogous to your state worship. As the union didn't create anything, so goobermint didn't create anything. They are parasites that make a big noise about handing stuff out, the gullible and wishful non-thinkers lap it up, but they're very quite about where it came from. The parallels with old time religion are stark.
So no answers, a random story about localized unions, a straw man and some insults.
You know, statistics will not be on your side in this. Neither will history. We can discuss theory, but that doesn't really matter if it's as unrealistic as communism.
Kneel before us and you will be saved,
If the welfare state is so great take it to Haiti and see how it goes. It is wealth and prosperity created by others that the parasitical welfare state relies on, and it's what you rely on to prop up your faith i.e. that which is produced by others.
@wajoma saidIt's only analogous if you assume a lot about me.
No straw man, it was analogous to your state worship. As the union didn't create anything, so goobermint didn't create anything. They are parasites that make a big noise about handing stuff out, the gullible and wishful non-thinkers lap it up, but they're very quite about where it came from. The parallels with old time religion are stark.
Kneel before us and you will be ...[text shortened]... te relies on, and it's what you rely on to prop up your faith i.e. that which is produced by others.
Tell the workers in 1870s or early 1900s that Unions didn't create anything.
Tell all the government run research facilities that government doesn't create anything.
Your hate towards what you don't understand is not surprising. Neither is your almost cult-like denial of the societies we've seen throughout history and your fanatical insistence that the world should be as you want it to be without any base in reality.
I don't have to go to Haiti to see a welfare state. I can go outside and take a walk down the streets of Copenhagen and see a well functioning one. One that ranks Denmark among the top countries in almost all parameters on how to measure the best society.
@wajoma saidThat's a dodge and a not perfectly clever one at that. In effect, you are supporting violence against those who have a different political philosophy than your extreme one.
You have a right to live your life free from force, threats of force and fraud.
Your social welfare dream feeling laws are backed by the threat of force. And there are people who have made a principled stand against your immorality that have experienced the threat of force taken to the next level. I happen to believe a mugger has no more right to threaten you with force, than if that mugger belonged to a gang of 500, 50 000 or 5 000 000.
All laws are backed by threat of force assuming the lawbreaker will not conform his behavior to the accepted mores of society. That is the same society that makes the economic rules that enable the creation and maintenance of any wealth.
@lundos saidYour fanaticism belongs in spiritualty, through out ages there have been god botherers claiming "Just believe, just believe, you don't understand, but that's only because you question, don't ask questions just believe and have faith". And like religions of not so very long ago if you don't believe they'll force you. Lundos' ideas, so good they have to be forced on unwilling citizens.
It's only analogous if you assume a lot about me.
Tell the workers in 1870s or early 1900s that Unions didn't create anything.
Tell all the government run research facilities that government doesn't create anything.
Your hate towards what you don't understand is not surprising. Neither is your almost cult-like denial of the societies we've seen throughout history a ...[text shortened]... t ranks Denmark among the top countries in almost all parameters on how to measure the best society.
State run research is the biggest scam going, it's the epitome of the 'broken window fallacy' writ large for all to see, that is all except those with their blinkers on.
The folk in a small town wake to find windows smashed by vandals in the night, "Nevermind, look on the bright side" they say "...it will provide work for the glazier, in fact he'll do quite well out of it." But like lundos with his blinkers on, they don't see the bigger picture, there has been a net loss, the baker has had to put off buying some equipment for his business, The garage owner had a long planned for holiday postponed. But there's lundos looking at the universities (the glazier) and their fat goobermint grants "wow you guys look at the majic of goobermint"
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@no1marauder saidyes No'1, the same goobermint that has ruined 1000's of enterprises and fines people for the voluntary exchange of value for value. A transaction that sees both parties better off is dissuaded more and more by ever increasing fines/taxes. To the tune of half a persons working life.
That's a dodge and a not perfectly clever one at that. In effect, you are supporting violence against those who have a different political philosophy than your extreme one.
All laws are backed by threat of force assuming the lawbreaker will not conform his behavior to the accepted mores of society. That is the same society that makes the economic rules that enable the creation and maintenance of any wealth.
Goobermnt: "We'll give you this, whether you want it or not, and we'll charge you that, whether you like it or not."
No1 and lundos: Now get on your knees and be thankful.
Edit: BTW I am not supporting violence, in a free society you're free to engage the services of someone to tell you what to do with half your working life, no doubt like goobermint they'll take a decent cut for themselves and hand a shovel full or two to their mates, but you'd be free to do that.
@wajoma saidA long rambling post with absolutely nothing of value.
Your fanaticism belongs in spiritualty, through out ages there have been god botherers claiming "Just believe, just believe, you don't understand, but that's only because you question, don't ask questions just believe and have faith". And like religions of not so very long ago if you don't believe they'll force you. Lundos' ideas, so good they have to be forced on unwilling c ...[text shortened]... rsities (the glazier) and their fat goobermint grants "wow you guys look at the majic of goobermint"
Statistics and empirical data doesn't matter and you claim I'm faith-based.
Basically all you bring to this is trying to insult me. Pathetic.
@wajoma saidI wrote trying. You didn't succeed.
If you feel insulted you might like to ponder on why that is. It's called a conscience.
I do have a conscience. I also have a brain. And I don't base my world views on pipe dreams and "I really want the world to be this way and all people to behave like this".
@lundos saidHere's another one for you:
I wrote trying. You didn't succeed.
I do have a conscience. I also have a brain. And I don't base my world views on pipe dreams and "I really want the world to be this way and all people to behave like this".
“This above all: to thine own self be true and it must follow, as the night the day
Thou canst not then be false to any man/Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!”
Shakespeare
Life changing, and if anyone needs it right now, it's you.
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@wajoma saidNeither new nor life changing.
Here's another one for you:
“This above all: to thine own self be true and it must follow, as the night the day
Thou canst not then be false to any man/Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!”
Shakespeare
Life changing, and if anyone needs it right now, it's you.
What is true for me isn't what is true for you or No1 or any other poster here. Or other people like Putin, Mette Frederiksen or Biden.
And just as complicated we are not islands on our own.
Let me ask you this then. How was every empire on earth created? And how was every empire on earth destroyed? (EDIT: In relation to your quote)
@lundos saidAside from things like personal preferences i.e. No1 likes barbie dolls and lundos likes ken dolls, there is only one truth.
Neither new nor life changing.
What is true for me isn't what is true for you or No1 or any other poster here. Or other people like Putin, Mette Frederiksen or Biden.
And just as complicated we are not islands on our own.
Let me ask you this then. How was every empire on earth created? And how was every empire on earth destroyed? (EDIT: In relation to your quote)
Something cannot be true for one person and not true for another. Religion A says 'Y' is true, Religion B says 'Z' is true. There are only two possible outcomes; either one is right and one is wrong, or, they're both wrong.
Never claimed a man was an island, that's one of the tiredest cliche's going from the collectivists, their stealth claim on the lives of others. There are people I like to deal with and they like to deal with me, the local cafe, my employer, the guys at the local drinking hole. That doesn't give you a right to force me into relationships with parasites and secondhanders because 'no man is an island.'
@wajoma saidOnce again no answer. Just more rambling.
Aside from things like personal preferences i.e. No1 likes barbie dolls and lundos likes ken dolls, there is only one truth.
Something cannot be true for one person and not true for another. Religion A says 'Y' is true, Religion B says 'Z' is true. There are only two possible outcomes; either one is right and one is wrong, or, they're both wrong.
Never claimed a man wa ...[text shortened]... right to force me into relationships with parasites and secondhanders because 'no man is an island.'
The world isn't black and white. But lets for argument say there is one truth. How do you know it's yours? You don't have all information pertaining all situations consistently at all times.
Do you think Putin think he is correct in attacking the Ukraine? That it's his truth that he is doing the right thing?
Something can easily be true for one person and not for another and universal truth between humans is impossible simply because of how our brains work.
Lucky for you your career doesn't seem to have taken you very far. Otherwise you would - hopefully - have learned a little more about how people behave. Since you mention religion all the time here's a little thing from the Bible; Knowledge kills paradise.
@lundos saidI stated something very clearly, very concisely, as dumbed down as possible and even then it's rambling to you?
Once again no answer. Just more rambling.
The world isn't black and white. But lets for argument say there is one truth. How do you know it's yours? You don't have all information pertaining all situations consistently at all times.
Do you think Putin think he is correct in attacking the Ukraine? That it's his truth that he is doing the right thing?
Something can easi ...[text shortened]... ce you mention religion all the time here's a little thing from the Bible; Knowledge kills paradise.
Because I don't have all information pertaining to all situations there can be no truth? That's you argument against reality?
@wajoma saidLOL. Are you kidding me? Back to trying to insult me. I understand what you were trying to say but what comes out is useless rambling. I can also see you are using your own definition of concise.
I stated something very clearly, very concisely, as dumbed down as possible and even then it's rambling to you?
Because I don't have all information pertaining to all situations there can be no truth? That's you argument against reality?
I'm trying to get you to understand that even if there is a universal truth on a theoretical level it doesn't matter in the real world.
@wajoma saidYou keep ignoring that your entire laissez faire system is only possible through the original use of force that created private property - a concept unknown to Man for the vast majority of his existence. And economic transactions themselves are meaningless without societal rules to regulate and enforce them. So your attempt to have your cake and eat it too is intellectually incoherent.
yes No'1, the same goobermint that has ruined 1000's of enterprises and fines people for the voluntary exchange of value for value. A transaction that sees both parties better off is dissuaded more and more by ever increasing fines/taxes. To the tune of half a persons working life.
Goobermnt: "We'll give you this, whether you want it or not, and we'll charge you that, whet ...[text shortened]... ecent cut for themselves and hand a shovel full or two to their mates, but you'd be free to do that.
And either you're a complete dunce or you are being deliberately misleading; your claim was that those who support a social welfare system are committing "violence" i.e. force against the few like yourself who have seen the "libertarian" light. But by your own philosophy that surely would justify force against them, so yes you are advocating violence against the democratic system. You should accept the logical consequences of your extreme philosophy if you are going to endlessly spout it here.