@Sleepyguy saidI know I'm old, but I remember when high level diplomacy was conducted by notes and secret negotiations not by barely literate ravings on social media.
Makes sense to me. Talking tough about no nukes for Iran and dropping sanctions if Iran would just play nice removes Israel's argument for regime change. It probably won't work, but he's trying to create the conditions for peace.
@no1marauder saidYou are then FOR secret negotiations? Whew. Not what you were writing last month.
I know I'm old, but I remember when high level diplomacy was conducted by notes and secret negotiations not by barely literate ravings on social media.
@no1marauder saidMe too. So what? You're just griping when you should be happy. It looked like we were on a path to another regime change boondoggle in the Middle East with weapons of mass destruction as the excuse, but this time around our President is telling us they don't exist.
I know I'm old, but I remember when high level diplomacy was conducted by notes and secret negotiations not by barely literate ravings on social media.
@Sleepyguy saidThe US basically did stay out of it 80 years ago. The formation of Israel was supported by the US (and the USSR, by the way), but if you want to "blame" any particular power, it would be the British, who administered the area, allowed the Jews in, and then packed up and left. The US didn't fight Israel's war of independence for it. Nobody did.
Well it would be nice if the US stayed out of it and let them figure it out for themselves, which is what I wish happened 80 years ago.
As for whether it was "fair," you can debate percentages of population relative to percentages of land control, but the Jews in the area had every bit as much right to self-rule as did the Arabs.
Just because Jews went 1,900 years without a state doesn't mean that had to continue ad infinitum.
@AverageJoe1 saidhttps://hellorayo.co.uk/magic/entertainment/music/elton-john-outfits
“Abkvar is riding tonite on a train🎶🎵,..
He can see the rescue lights!!
Trump waving back at hiiiiimmm… x🎵
@AverageJoe1 saidGet a job
Check out rings on Mandami’s fiinnnnngers. Hmmm, maybe a bit flighty?!? We will see soon enough. What is it with you people?
He pushes a rent freeze. I support my family on rental income is he going to not allow me to charge what I want to?!?! Will his govt tell me how to run my business? Is he thus a nazi! What is wrong with you people?
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@sh76 saidNo disrespect intended at all, but I'm honestly past caring. I've been following this forum (against my better judgement) for 18 years now. How many people have died over the Israel vs. Palestine conflict during that time? All the arguments and talking points are worn smooth like stones rolling in a river. I just want one side to lose so the world can move on and people will stop killing each other over it.
The US basically did stay out of it 80 years ago. The formation of Israel was supported by the US (and the USSR, by the way), but if you want to "blame" any particular power, it would be the British, who administered the area, allowed the Jews in, and then packed up and left. The US didn't fight Israel's war of independence for it. Nobody did.
As for whether it was "fair," yo ...[text shortened]...
Just because Jews went 1,900 years without a state doesn't mean that had to continue ad infinitum.
@sh76 saidWhy are Jews more deserving of a nation state than say Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses ( both of which have similar numbers of adherents worldwide)?
The US basically did stay out of it 80 years ago. The formation of Israel was supported by the US (and the USSR, by the way), but if you want to "blame" any particular power, it would be the British, who administered the area, allowed the Jews in, and then packed up and left. The US didn't fight Israel's war of independence for it. Nobody did.
As for whether it was "fair," yo ...[text shortened]...
Just because Jews went 1,900 years without a state doesn't mean that had to continue ad infinitum.
@no1marauder saidThe 'Jews' is not a religion. Judaism is the religion, and the Jews [the name really combines the religon and culture] are the people who lived in Palestine before the Arabs. Of course there were the Canaanites and Amalekites etc living there before. Palestine was ruled by a series of Empires, and because of the Zionist movement, around 1890 the Jews started buying property in Palestine. When the British took over in 1915, the Jews contributed to the infrastructural development of Palestine, more than any other group. So the answer is that they deserve more of Palestine which they developed, than any other group including Arabs.
Why are Jews more deserving of a nation state than say Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses ( both of which have similar numbers of adherents worldwide)?
@no1marauder saidJews are an ethnic group.
Why are Jews more deserving of a nation state than say Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses ( both of which have similar numbers of adherents worldwide)?
Mormons and probably JWs are sects of Anglo Protestants and not only do Anglos dominate the USA and the world in general but they have occupied Britain for 1500 years AND their ancestral homeland of Angeln is still controlled by Anglos as part of the German nation-state.
Mormons and JWs are analogous to Hasidic Jews, not Jews in general, and Hasidim do not have a nation-state of their own.
@no1marauder saidIf the non-Mormons of Utah were unwilling to let the Mormons live in peace and interfered with their self-determination and constantly treated them as second class citizens, they would also be entitled to their own autonomy.
Why are Jews more deserving of a nation state than say Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses ( both of which have similar numbers of adherents worldwide)?
@Rajk999 saidThat's total BS as most of your historical claims are. Jews represented less than 10% of Palestine's pre-Balfour population and their ownership of land there was negligible.
The 'Jews' is not a religion. Judaism is the religion, and the Jews [the name really combines the religon and culture] are the people who lived in Palestine before the Arabs. Of course there were the Canaanites and Amalekites etc living there before. Palestine was ruled by a series of Empires, and because of the Zionist movement, around 1890 the Jews started buying property ...[text shortened]... r is that they deserve more of Palestine which they developed, than any other group including Arabs.
@sh76 saidThe Ute people are the indigenous people of Utah. The Mormons can go back to Mormonia where they came from.
If the non-Mormons of Utah were unwilling to let the Mormons live in peace and interfered with their self-determination and constantly treated them as second class citizens, they would also be entitled to their own autonomy.
I mean Germany.
@no1marauder saidI never gave any %. About 75% of Palestine was state land. It is most of this land that was passed on to the Jews in the UN partition.
That's total BS as most of your historical claims are. Jews represented less than 10% of Palestine's pre-Balfour population and their ownership of land there was negligible.
@AThousandYoung saidIsrael's Right to Return Law has no ethnic component.https://www.nbn.org.il/life-in-israel/government-services/rights-and-benefits/the-law-of-return/
Jews are an ethnic group.
Mormons and probably JWs are sects of Anglo Protestants and not only do Anglos dominate the USA and the world in general but they have occupied Britain for 1500 years AND their ancestral homeland of Angeln is still controlled by Anglos as part of the German nation-state.
Mormons and JWs are analogous to Hasidic Jews, not Jews in general, and Hasidim do not have a nation-state of their own.