@no1marauder saidSo this question might be worthy of a separate thread, but what do you think will realistically bring peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Emphasis on 'realistically'. This is the opposite of what some fanatics like Mr Spruce 'Get off their land' would say. Got any workable ideas?
Peace through bombing and supplying the biggest disrupter of the peace with a virtually unlimited supply of weapons while he wants to massively increase our already bloated military budget.
I don't see much of an emphasis on "peace" in his deeds; he talks the game apparently because he'd like to get one of those Nobel Peace Prize thingys that he could put on an mantelp ...[text shortened]... be able to rub it for good luck or something.
Maybe for a million you could play frisbee with it.
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@Rajk999 saidThe framework has been in place for decades; a Palestinian State in the West Bank and Gaza with maybe some land swaps to accommodate a small amount of Jewish settlers in the former. That's what the Oslo Accords were meant to lead to.
So this question might be worthy of a separate thread, but what do you think will realistically bring peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Emphasis on 'realistically'. This is the opposite of what some fanatics like Mr Spruce 'Get off their land' would say. Got any workable ideas?
This will never happen as long as the Israeli right wing is in power in that nation; it categorically rejects the idea of a Palestinian State.
@no1marauder saidTwo physically separate Palestinian states is a problem with that idea. There is movement between the two, and movement in and out of Israel, all of which has to be monitored until some has trust has developed. Plus movement in and out of Jerusalem ... by the way what is to become of that?
The framework has been in place for decades; a Palestinian State in the West Bank and Gaza with maybe some land swaps to accommodate a small amount of Jewish settlers in the former.
This will never happen as long as the Israeli right wing is in power in that nation; it categorically rejects the idea of a Palestinian State.
@Rajk999 saidI don't know. I suppose this is off the table: "The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations. " https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/united-nations-general-assembly-resolution-181/
Two physically separate Palestinian states is a problem with that idea. There is movement between the two, and movement in and out of Israel, all of which has to be monitored until some has trust has developed. Plus movement in and out of Jerusalem ... by the way what is to become of that?
The issue is moot until there is an Israeli government willing to accept a Palestinian State which this one is not. If and when that occurs, it will be up to the parties to reach agreement on the technical issues - something they failed to do after Oslo.
There are precedents of having nation States which are not physically contiguous: Pakistan until 1971, Kaliningrad from Russia, Alaska from the US. etc. etc.
@Sleepyguy saidYes, a true rational spokesman for peace.https://time.com/7298477/trump-iran-threat-khamenei-nuclear-bombs-sanctions/
Yes he zigs and zags, and is a big weird braggart, but one of his goals seems to be peace. Can you at least get behind that?
@no1marauder saidMakes sense to me. Talking tough about no nukes for Iran and dropping sanctions if Iran would just play nice removes Israel's argument for regime change. It probably won't work, but he's trying to create the conditions for peace.
Yes, a true rational spokesman for peace.https://time.com/7298477/trump-iran-threat-khamenei-nuclear-bombs-sanctions/
@no1marauder saidIF a peaceful two-state solution had been the goal, it would have been easy, anytime in the last 80 years, to connect WB and Gaza with a highway, with under and over passes so the two sides could go their separate ways and ignore each other.
There are precedents of having nation States which are not physically contiguous: Pakistan until 1971, Kaliningrad from Russia, Alaska from the US. etc. etc.
The distance is about 22 miles. (From the White House to Dulles Airport is further).
But peaceful coexistence was never the Zionist goal. 😆
@spruce112358 saidTrue. Zionism is stupid and the formation of Israel was unjust to the people who already lived there (as is the conquering of any region by another people). But it is now a fait accompli. I think you need to get over it.
But peaceful coexistence was never the Zionist goal. 😆
@Sleepyguy saidSo what do you do/say the next time it happens? 😆
True. Zionism is stupid and the formation of Israel was unjust to the people who already lived there (as is the conquering of any region by another people). But it is now a fait accompli. I think you need to get over it.
@spruce112358 saidWell it would be nice if the US stayed out of it and let them figure it out for themselves, which is what I wish happened 80 years ago.
So what do you do/say the next time it happens? 😆
@Sleepyguy saidBritain, too. 😆
Well it would be nice if the US stayed out of it and let them figure it out for themselves, which is what I wish happened 80 years ago.
@AverageJoe1 saidTrump is capricious, transactional and focussed on self aggrandisement and self enrichment. Of course he is perfect to run middle east relations. They are his people.
As Trump's policies are realized by the liberals to be the right things for our country and for the world, the liberals like Kmax will start creeping back to reality.
Seeing reality from another person's perspective is a hallmark of liberalism.
@no1marauder saidWith one side hell-bent on killing the other side and there is going to have to be a wall between Israel and the Arab Palestinians. Egypt does not care for Gazans to enter their territory, so they have a wall and a buffer zone at the Rafah crossing. No two state solution will work without proper security between the two sides.
I don't know. I suppose this is off the table: "The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations. " https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/united-nations-general-assembly-resolution-181/
The issue is moot until there is an Israeli government willing to accept a Palest ...[text shortened]... physically contiguous: Pakistan until 1971, Kaliningrad from Russia, Alaska from the US. etc. etc.
@spruce112358 saidPeaceful coexistence was never the goal of the Arabs in Palestine. They said it, they wrote about it, and they started the war in 1948 because of it. Arab states said it clearly that there will be no Jewish state in Palestine.
IF a peaceful two-state solution had been the goal, it would have been easy, anytime in the last 80 years, to connect WB and Gaza with a highway, with under and over passes so the two sides could go their separate ways and ignore each other.
The distance is about 22 miles. (From the White House to Dulles Airport is further).
But peaceful coexistence was never the Zionist goal. 😆
Show me where, starting in 1948 did the Jews say they do not want an Arab Palestinian state.
@spruce112358 saidIn 1948, the surrounding Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia entered Palestine to fight Jews. Why did they interfere?
Britain, too. 😆