@sh76 saidI'm not "the world" either. Triggered much?
When the world insists on giving me the key to my grandfather's his parents' house in Berlin and, I'll look more favorably on the demand that Gazans have the right to move 40 miles up the road to Ashkelon.
The demand that people who grandparents were displaced 8 decades ago have the right to return is unique to Israel.
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@sh76 saidI don't know what you mean by "legitimate".
I didn't trade anything. And I don't think Israel has any inherent right to anything in the West Bank. And I never buy the God-given right crap in any context. Even to the extent that I am religious, I don't believe in projecting any belief system on others.
My point is only that historical displacement of one's ancestors has never been a legitimate claim to territory.
It sounds like you mean those with the violence and money can legitimately take what they want.
My perspective is more informed by the dominant political-historic phenomenon of nationalism which ended the era of empires as well as principles of natural law.
EDIT - I certainly have no objection to your petitioning the German government for ownership of your grandfather's property assuming you intend to live there. New York in return should give your current home to the indigenous Lenape people.
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@AThousandYoung saidThat's not what the laws says nor how it works in practice. Converts are eligible regardless of ethnicity.
As I said, Jews are an ethnic group. The first sentence of that link reads:The Law of Return, granting every Jew in the world the right to settle in Israel, was passed by the Knesset on July 5, 1950, and published in Sefer HaChukkim (Book of Laws) No. 51, p. 159.
Your claim is thus disproven.
@no1marauder saidEthnicity is a function of culture and religion is part of culture.
That's not what the laws says nor how it works in practice. Converts are eligible regardless of ethnicity.
People transfer ethnic groups in history. There are whites who got adopted into Plains tribes. People marry into ethnic groups. Many immigrants to the USA go to great effort to become Anglicized.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism
Nationalism is an idea or movement that holds that the nation should be congruent with the state. As a movement, it presupposes the existence and tends to promote the interests of a particular nation, especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining its sovereignty (self-governance) over its perceived homeland to create a nation-state. It holds that each nation should govern itself, free from outside interference (self-determination), that a nation is a natural and ideal basis for a polity, and that the nation is the only rightful source of political power. It further aims to build and maintain a single national identity, based on a combination of shared social characteristics such as culture, ethnicity, geographic location, language, politics (or the government), religion, traditions and belief in a shared singular history, and to promote national unity or solidarity.
@AThousandYoung saidWell, that reparation deal has president. There was recently a return of really valuable pieces of art Nazi's ripped out of Jewish homes in WW2 and after decades of law suits that Jewish family got their art work back.
I don't know what you mean by "legitimate".
It sounds like you mean those with the violence and money can legitimately take what they want.
My perspective is more informed by the dominant political-historic phenomenon of nationalism which ended the era of empires as well as principles of natural law.
EDIT - I certainly have no objection to your petitioning t ...[text shortened]... nd to live there. New York in return should give your current home to the indigenous Lenape people.
Of course that was not land or houses but still, it sets president.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism
Ethnic nationalism, also known as ethnonationalism, is a form of nationalism wherein the nation and nationality are defined in terms of ethnicity,with emphasis on an ethnocentric (and in some cases an ethnostate/ethnocratic) approach to various political issues related to national affirmation of a particular ethnic group.
The central tenet of ethnic nationalists is that "nations are defined by a shared heritage, which usually includes a common language, a common faith, and a common ethnic ancestry". Those of other ethnicities may be classified as second-class citizens.
@AThousandYoung saidhttps://www.theguardian.com/film/2012/may/23/johnny-depp-member-comanche-nation
Ethnicity is a function of culture and religion is part of culture.
People transfer ethnic groups in history. There are whites who got adopted into Plains tribes. People marry into ethnic groups. Many immigrants to the USA go to great effort to become Anglicized.
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@AThousandYoung saidDon't think Jews as defined by Israel's Right to Return law share either a common language or ethnic ancestry.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism
Ethnic nationalism, also known as ethnonationalism, is a form of nationalism wherein the nation and nationality are defined in terms of ethnicity,with emphasis on an ethnocentric (and in some cases an ethnostate/ethnocratic) approach to various political issues related to national affirmation of a particular ethnic group. ...[text shortened]... mon ethnic ancestry". Those of other ethnicities may be classified as second-class citizens.
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@no1marauder saidKnowing one's ethnic language is not a requirement to be of that ethnos. So many Israelis don't know Hebrew. They do have a language however. Not many Irish speak Irish either.
Don't think Jews as defined by Israel's Right to Return law share either a common language or ethnic ancestry.
I don't know what you mean by "ethnic ancestry". Are you referring to Semitic biological ancestry? EDIT I see the phrase was in the quote. I'll respond.
There is no one thing that defines or disproves ethnicity. It is an emergent or collective property for many different properties. Biological ancestry, language, religion and many other factors determine ethnicity. Whether someone "really" belongs to an ethnic group is always subjectively determined.
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@Rajk999 saidNope. Jews have been the aggressors since the beginning. Get off Arab land. 😆
Peaceful coexistence was never the goal of the Arabs in Palestine. They said it, they wrote about it, and they started the war in 1948 because of it. Arab states said it clearly that there will be no Jewish state in Palestine.
Show me where, starting in 1948 did the Jews say they do not want an Arab Palestinian state.
@sh76 saidYet Israel's Declaration of Independence talks about Jews creating the "Book of Books", the laws of the prophets and appeals to the Almighty.
Most Israelis, and certainly Israeli governments, and even more so, the initial Israeli governments, were entirely secular and didn't believe in God, let alone assert a God given right to anything.
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When Hindu nationalism led to freedom from the British Empire, who was a "real Indian"? What trait could an American lawyer point to in order to veto whether someone got to be an Indian nationalist?
How about whether someone is "really Irish" among Irish nationalists?
How do we know if someone is "really" Polish? Or Ukrainian? What can we Americans use to veto membership in those ethnic nations?
It's not for us to make that decision. They know who their people are and they can make their own laws about it.
@spruce112358 saidArabia is to the east. Enjoy the walk.
Nope. Jews have been the aggressors since the beginning. Get off Arab land. 😆