Originally posted by abejnoodThose translations are independently verified, no matter who the
Wrong. Mostly correct, but wrong. Let me correct you. They have AMERICAN Iranian translators. Should I repeat that? AMERICAN Iranian translators. That means that it might change, have you ever thought of that? The President got where he is by cheating, you think that they wouldn't change the wording of what was said a little to put Iran in what looks like ...[text shortened]... e. But be serious with yourself. You know that I am right. Do not argue for the sake of arguing.
original translator was. There are linguistic scholars who do nothing
more than make sure what someone says is not mis-interpreted.
Believe me, the world has a low opinion of america and maybe
rightly so but the translations would be double scrutinized by
french scholars, german, Arabic, etc. No-one doubts what he said.
The French especially would love to catch the americans with thier
pants down on something like this so believe me all such translations
are double and triple checked. My only attack on you was to suggest
your family might be giving you unconscience bias, thats all I
was saying, and of course not knowing you personally I might be
wrong, just that is how bias spreads. If it wasn't for parents passing
down bias from mother to daugher, father to son, there would be
no bias in three generations or so. Unfortunately it goes on and on
generation after generation with everyone totally denying any
such thing. Its sad but true. When I was saying that to you I was
speaking statistically, not you personally because I don't know you
and cannot judge any given individual.
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Originally posted by sonhouseI think that you misunderstood my post. You claimed the children cannot lose the prejudices of their parents and I showed you that they can. Florida is a redneck state, especially once you get out of South Florida. Their is still racial tension there, but not in my family. When I was 10 or 12 we were watching Rocky on t.v.. My grandmother blurted out "Hit that nigger!" Everyone in my family was appalled. My parents had raised us to never judge other people by the color of thier skin and here was my mother's mother yelling to hit the nigger. It was shocking to not only hear the language she used but because we had never heard my mother say anything remotely like that. Therefore, my mother had lost the prejudices that she was raised with. Proving that your statement I said you were raised into the hatred of Jews, deny it as you will, its like white guys here in america, as much as they say they are friends with blacks there is a built in bias they can't shake because of their parents and THEIR parents, etc.
Sorry if I come across as a muslim hater. BTW, I lived in florida
and know the bias against blacks is still there though it may be
less now than when I lived there. I lived in Fort Walton Beach
up the panhandle. My last vesitges of bias I think left when I started
studying delta blues, realizing how much genius was floating around
in the black communit ...[text shortened]... e to be a rocket scientist
to see it. And that was in a west coast, supposedly bias free, town.
Originally posted by CliffLandin
Therefore, my mother had lost the prejudices that she was raised with. Proving that your statement I said you were raised into the hatred of Jews, deny it as you will, its like white guys here in america, as much as they say they are friends with blacks there is a built in bias they can't shake because of their parents and THEIR parents, etc. is false 😉
Originally posted by no1marauderThe Western Puppet theory goes back to when Britain just made
I don't consider the Saudi royal family as "progressive". The primary goal of the "jihadists" is to take over Muslim lands from the present rulerswho they consider (with good reason) corrupt, Western puppets (like the Saudis) or corrupt, neo-fascists (like Saddam was). If the West hadn't been supporting these types of regimes for more than half a c ...[text shortened]... nternational law and everything else they've done in the last 57 years has failed to gain them.
these squares on a map that deliniated the middle east into what
those victorian arseholes thought should be what the new countries
are without regard to the various indigenes. So that was the model
that the middle east had to deal with when they were under the thumb
of the British empire. It didn't make sense then and it sure as helski
doesn't make sense now.
Originally posted by CliffLandinI hate to be the one to tell you but the parents are the ones who
pass on bias, who the heck do you think it comes from, their priests?
You put a bunch of international three year olds together and they
will start games, fights, pulling contests, pie throwing, etc. without
regard to race. Ten years later, put those same kids together,
and I am speaking statistically here, they will band together into
their own groups. If the three year olds who played together had no
parents and grew up together, they would not know what bias was.
Of course I know it would be pretty well impossible to do just that,
it is a thought experiment. Bias comes from the parents.
Period.
I lived in Thailand for three years as well as Israel and saw prejudice
raise its ugly head there also, there was a camp of Vietnamese
refugees where I lived, a place called Nakomphenom (NKP)
right on the Mekong. Those Viets were reviled by the Thai's.
I remember one bad incident where a viet pet dog was caught by
the local Thai kids and had a trail of tin cans strapped to its tail and
pictures of Ho Chi Min tied to it also covered with dog dodo.
That caused a big riot where the viets for some strange reason
took it as an insult.
The Thai's also were biased against the Karen tribe, an aboriginal
group living in the north. Prejudice is certainly not limited to
arabs reviling jews or whites hating blacks, its much more pervasive
than that. I can state that for a fact as I lived it, both in my own
upbringing which I (knock on wood) have mostly eradicated to
living in four very differant environments, Alaska (whites Vs. Inuit)
Bahamas, whites vs blacks. Thailand, Thai's vs everyone else,
Jerusalem, Muslim vs Jew vs christian.
So I have seen it up close and when you see discussions by one
group dissing another in the presence of the children, just what do you
think the kids are going to come up with?
You have another theory of prejudice you would like to share?
Originally posted by sonhouseWhich part of my post did you not understand? I showed that my parents did not continue the prejudices of their parents. I do know that prejudices are passed down from parents to children, but it is not impossible for people to lose the prejudices of thier parents. My parents are not racist in any fashion. My parents children, there are five others besides me, are not prejudice. Please explain to me which part of this you are not understanding and I will elaborate further.
I hate to be the one to tell you but the parents are the ones who
pass on bias, who the heck do you think it comes from, their priests?
You put a bunch of international three year olds together and they
will start games, fights, pulling contests, pie throwing, etc. without
regard to race. Ten years later, put those same kids together,
and I am speakin ...[text shortened]... e kids are going to come up with?
You have another theory of prejudice you would like to share?
Your assertion that all prejudices come from the parents is patently false. If it is not false, how can you explain my parents, my brothers, sisters and me? Are you going to tell me that I am prejudice and I just don't know it? You should go back and read my other posts before lecturing me on the prejudices of Thailand and Vietnam.
You seem to think that I am saying that prejudices don't come from the parents. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that it is not impossible for a child of prejudice to say "You know what, I have found what my parents say to be wrong"
Of course you are the expert, so I am sure that I am harboring some deep prejudices that I don't know about and that they will manifest themselves later in my life. I am forty, about halfway there, so it should be any day that I become a racist.
🙁
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Originally posted by CliffLandinI am not talking about individuals, I am talking about population
Which part of my post did you not understand? I showed that my parents did not continue the prejudices of their parents. I do know that prejudices are passed down from parents to children, but it is not impossible for people to lose the prejudices of thier parents. My parents are not racist in any fashion. My parents children, there are five others besid ...[text shortened]... my life. I am forty, about halfway there, so it should be any day that I become a racist.
🙁
trends. Of course you can overcome prejudice as an individual.
The problem is, there is a LOT of inertia in this department over
large populations. Blacks are prejudiced against other blacks with
darker skin, the theory there being since whites have for centuries
had the peculiar notion they are superior to blacks so the lighter
the skin, the better or less black you are, therefore the blue black
racially pure person is looked down upon by the ligher skinned blacks
who came up from the plantations with white blood mixed in through
the centuries.
Thats going to take a long time for the average black man to
overcome, its just one example of the kind of prejudice going on
around the world. In Jordan for instance, the Beduins are really
looked down upon by the locals who are settled in one place and
don't caravan around from campsite to campsite like the Beduins.
There is nothing more or less superior about Beduins but they
are still lower down on the totem pole than the local city dwellers.
And in their case, there is no incentive for change, the Beduins,
just like the Gypsys in east europe, do not for the most part,
mix genetically with the farmer dwellers, so that system will be here
for hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years to come.
The fact that you and I have both overcome prejudicial issues
personally has not much to do with the overall situation.
Maybe in another 200 years the America's will be prejudice free
societies as a rule but I doubt it. And you can forget Gypsys
and Beduins being thought of as equals by the landlubbers.
Cliff, have you seen much of the world outside the US? If you have
you should see its a much more purvasive problem than you seem
to think.
I have spent over ten years living in diverse cultures and saw it up
close and personal, I think I know a bit about what I am talking about,
not claiming to be an anthropologist or anything but have seen
a lot of cultures outside the US up close and personal for extended
periods of time.
Originally posted by sonhouseOf course there are prejudices in the world, but if you take a look at things objectively, at least in the US it is a lot better than it was fifty years ago. Your original statement was this;
I am not talking about individuals, I am talking about population
trends. Of course you can overcome prejudice as an individual.
The problem is, there is a LOT of inertia in this department over
large populations. Blacks are prejudiced against other blacks with
darker skin, the theory there being since whites have for centuries
had the peculiar notion ...[text shortened]... doubt it. And you can forget Gypsys
and Beduins being thought of as equals by the landlubbers.
I said you were raised into the hatred of Jews, deny it as you will, its like white guys here in america, as much as they say they are friends with blacks there is a built in bias they can't shake because of their parents and THEIR parents, etc.
You keep sticking to this opinion even though I have proved it wrong. I am a white guy in American and I do have black friends and I am not prejudice even though my grandparents were. You keep ignoring what I am telling you and defending your position even when I show you that it is flawed. Am I saying that because my parents were thinkers there is no prejudice in the world? NO. What I am saying is that your postition that "white guys here in america, as much as they say they are friends with blacks there is a built in bias they can't shake" is false. They can shake it and should shake it. I have proven that at least in one case that the prejudice can be lost. You continue to assert that I am wrong. If you don't think that I am wrong retract your original statement and admit that, in fact, you are wrong.
Of course the fact that you and I have overcome prejudice has everything to do with the overall situation. It proves that people can break the trend. There will always be prejudices in the world, but the only way to change is for individuals to change. Societies don't change until the individuals of said society change. It is ignorant to say "You and I did it, but the rest of those ignorant clowns can't!"
I too have been all around the world and have seen horrible prejudices, but I have also seen incredible acts of kindness. You want to see the bad in everyone while I choose to see the potential in everyone.
Originally posted by abejnoodWell you are an AMERICAN Iranian so perhaps you got the translation wrong. To become a translator in the UN you have to be proficient in the language. You have to be certified and able to read and write documents ie. treaties, laws, etc. etc. Quit defending the president of Iran.
Wrong. Mostly correct, but wrong. Let me correct you. They have AMERICAN Iranian translators. Should I repeat that? AMERICAN Iranian translators. That means that it might change, have you ever thought of that? The President got where he is by cheating, you think that they wouldn't change the wording of what was said a little to put Iran in what looks like ...[text shortened]... e. But be serious with yourself. You know that I am right. Do not argue for the sake of arguing.
I hope the Iranian President doesn't call on the Europeans to establish a homeland for the Americans of European descent, since they came from Europe and went to the Americas to settle there.
..... man, I hope the native Americans do not understand Farsi .... Ahmadinejad could give them some pretty bad ideas .....
Originally posted by slimjimPerhaps... I do not deny that I may make mistakes in a language I have always spoken, since I was born... but perhaps... after all, I am not perfect.
Well you are an AMERICAN Iranian so perhaps you got the translation wrong. To become a translator in the UN you have to be proficient in the language. You have to be certified and able to read and write documents ie. treaties, laws, etc. etc. Quit defending the president of Iran.
You make it sound as though the president DID say what he supposedly said, and maybe he did, I might have made a mistake. I am not defending the president. I am simply trying to get some of the facts strighter here, and maybe, just maybe, you should consider that I may know something that others may not... consider that, won't you?
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2005/sc8576.doc.htm
SECURITY COUNCIL PRESS STATEMENT ON REMARKS BY IRAN ’S PRESIDENT
The following press statement on the remarks by the President of Iran was delivered today by Security Council President Emyr Jones Parry ( United Kingdom):
The members of the Security Council condemn the remarks about Israel and the denial of the Holocaust attributed to Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of the Islamic Republic of Iran.
The members of the Security Council fully support the Secretary General's statement of 8 December, in which he recalled that the General Assembly had recently adopted a resolution rejecting denial of the Holocaust as a historical event, either in full or in part*, and urged all Member States to educate their populations about the Holocaust.
The members of the Security Council reaffirm the rights and obligations of the State of Israel as a full and long-standing Member of the United Nations, and reaffirm that, under the United Nations Charter, all Members have undertaken to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State.
* the italics are mine
Originally posted by ivanhoe😴😴
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2005/sc8576.doc.htm
SECURITY COUNCIL PRESS STATEMENT ON REMARKS BY IRAN ’S PRESIDENT
The following press statement on the remarks by the President of Iran was delivered today by Security Council President Emyr Jones Parry ( United Kingdom):
The members of the Security Council condemn the remarks about Israel ...[text shortened]... e territorial integrity or political independence of any State.
* the italics are mine
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http://wwwdev.ushmm.org/newsfeed2/viewstory2.php?storyid=F7A9F68E-87A9-40E6-A721-8B3D02D620A0%20target=
2005-12-18
Xinhua News Agency - CEIS
TEHRAN, Dec. 18 (Xinhua) -- Iran on Sunday rejected the reactions of the European Union (EU) and the United States on President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's recent anti-Israel remarks, terming it as illogical*.
"Remark by the Iranian president on the Zionist regime was a scientific debate. It is not a new issue," Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hamid-Reza Asefi said, quoted by the official IRNA news agency.
"I am surprised with the approaches taken towards this scientific* debate. The type of reaction the Europeans and the westerners have shown to the president's remark has no place in the civilized world," Asefi added.
* Italics are mine.
Edit: The Iranian regime is conveniently forgetting that the International community, the UN including Russia and China, opposed and condemned Ahmadinejad's remarks.