Originally posted by mokkoSo let's take a look at our current US administration.
Liberal = freedom?
Hmmmmm from what I've seen........
Liberal=taxes + taxes + more taxes
Liberal = overspending
Liberal = complete mismanagements of funds
Liberal = free = at the cost of the working class
Liberal = more government involvement/ control
With the exception of taxes I can make one small change to your post and it fits perfectly. I'll concede the point on taxes:
Conservative = overspending
Conservative = complete mismanagements of funds
Conservative = free = at the cost of the working class
Conservative = more government involvement/ control
So we're all in the same flooded boat my friend. We can keep bailing or we can throw the useless b@stards out, work together, and row ourselves back to shore.
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Originally posted by wibYou know, George dubya (or whoever does his thinking for him) is a genius. Why?
So let's take a look at our current US administration.
With the exception of taxes I can make one small change to your post and it fits perfectly. I'll concede the point on taxes:
[b]Conservative = overspending
Conservative = complete mismanagements of funds
Conservative = free = at the cost of the working class
Conservative = more government invo ...[text shortened]... ng or we can throw the useless b@stards out, work together, and row ourselves back to shore.[/b]
Well, he (as representative of the Republic party) absolutely fecks up america, especially economically, during his tenure as president.
So, say the people get sick of this mismanagement. What are they going to do? Vote in the Democrats (only other option in this strange version of democracy)
So what do the democrats have to do to try to revive the country economically, and to reduce the record deficits brought about by bush & co? They have to raise taxes of course.
Considering how short sighted most voters are, they'll get peed off at the tax increases, and revote back in the Republicans, ie: bush' cronies.
Sheer brilliance.
D
Originally posted by CanadaguyEveryone minding their own business.
I'm interested in knowing what you left wingers actually believe in. All my life all I've ever heard is snide comments and conservative bashing from you guys. Never have I heard what you actually want from this world and what you believe to be true and right. Here is your chance to sell me on your beliefs.
No interference in any way, shape or form into the personal lives of US citizens either by the government, private business, or other citizens. And yes I especially mean their sex lives and personal relationships.
The removal of all religious holidays and references from government offices and schools.
A decrease in spending on military hardware, but an increase in spending on intelligence (spying). It's 2005, we don't need another missle. We need to know what everyone else in the world is doing and we need to get it right for a change.
The complete removal of all US troops from foreign soil. And I mean everywhere. Even allied countries. This by itself will save billions of dollars per year.
Term limits for every single politician in the country. One term. If a person desires to stay in politics they have to move up or out.
The removal of all lobbyists from Washington DC. Criminalize all lobbying activities of all politicians at all levels.
Legalization and heavy taxation of currently illegal drugs. The same thing we currently do with alcohol and cigarettes.
The immediate resignation of all politicians that have served more than 20 years at any level of government as an elected official.
And just way too much stuff to list while I'm at work.
Originally posted by WajomaIf you choose to look upon an entirely negative scenario of my suggestion, that is up to you. Instead of retarding everybodies education to the level of the poorest people, as you suggest, why not raise the level to that of the richest, ie: currently the best. Why should whether a childs parents didn't work hard or wasn't born wealthy mean that the child is penalised?
It needn't be piano, that was just one example the same could be applied to maths, computer skills anything. Some parents work a little harder to provide a little more for their number one achievement, another human life, their child but noooooo under Ragnoraks system everyone has to be equal, if the other kids can't get it no-one can.
New Zealand has a ...[text shortened]... hat can they be bribed for? Give an example of a law that business might bribe gummint to pass.
Well then NZ is a failing example of public health. As is Ireland. Sweden, the example I cited isn't. Health insurance is the biggest joke ever. I recently had two exploratory operations, which I felt at the time I didn't need. My insurance covered the €3000 bill. It was only after the ops showed up nothing, that the oncologist suggested I eat live yoghurt for a couple of weeks to try to sort the problem. I have a feeling that this situation may have been reversed if it weren't for the fact that the oncologist knew he'd be able to get phat juicy check from the insurance company. If he was getting paid a wage by the government, whether he performed ops or not, I'm sure he would have recommended the yoghurt before diving straight into the operations.
Examples of laws that business might bribe government to pass/not pass. Big business could "influence" government officials not to pass environmental protection laws, anti tobacco laws, raise tax on oil, etc, etc. The list is endless.
D
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Originally posted by RagnorakYep. And this scenario repeats itself time and time again in the US. The two party system is killing us. I voted for Kerry, but not because I thought he was the answer, but simply because he seemed less scary than his opponent. Either way, we're screwed.
You know, George dubya (or whoever does his thinking for him) is a genius. Why?
Well, he (as representative of the Republic party) absolutely fecks up america, especially economically, during his tenure as president.
So, say the people get sick of this mismanagement. What are they going to do? Vote in the Democrats (only other option in this stra ...[text shortened]... tax increases, and revote back in the Republicans, ie: bush' cronies.
Sheer brilliance.
D
Politicians in the US have done a wonderful job of dividing us. they take small issues and shove them in our faces over and over again while the media gorges itself on the slightest tidbit of so called news in politics. Then we have the O'Reilly's of the world that feed on the scraps of issues that are left and he succeeds in dividing us further. All for his own financial gain and ego masturbation.
Our system is broken. But it's intentionally broken for the benefit of those in power. The republicans are no different than democrats. Our current administration has so many indictments against its members they're gonna have to start holding staff meetings in a federal prison.
Our current districts in my state (Virginia) are so gerrymandered that there is almost no competition for incumbent politicians. We currently have about a 95% re-election rate for the incumbents. I hear people all of the time complaining about politicians and yet every year we re-elect the same b@stards to office. How is this possible?! Are we stupid, lazy, gullible, or all of the above? I don't think so. I think we're being played by the people in power and everytime anyone tries to change the system they get squashed. Most of the time anyway.
If you want to see Dems and Republicans work together on something, just watch'em attack a third party candidate.
The b@stards! All of'em!
Originally posted by wibI don't know American politics but I do know what I've seen across Canada. Living in Alberta, the only conservative province and the ONLY Debt free province I can't see too many of the downsides. Not to mention we are the only province that doesn't pay provincial sales tax. Although we have been cursed by the GST (goods and services tax, which is 7%.) PST is approximately 15% in all other provinces which equals out to 22% sales tax!!!!!!
So let's take a look at our current US administration.
With the exception of taxes I can make one small change to your post and it fits perfectly. I'll concede the point on taxes:
[b]Conservative = overspending
Conservative = complete mismanagements of funds
Conservative = free = at the cost of the working class
Conservative = more government invo ...[text shortened]... ailing or we can throw the useless b@stards out, work together, and row ourselves back to shore.
Yes our welfare has been reduced to almost nothing but every store in my town has a now hiring sign and Burger King pays $12/hour. So welfare has become practically no longer needed. (Unless you're a lazy bum)
I have lived in the Liberal provinces as well and from experience the quality of life is nowhere as high. the general public is over taxed and more people fall into welfare. Which is easily and readily available to the masses and consumes the majority of the taxes that could be put to better use elsewhere.
The cutbacks of the conservative government in alberta has not been an easy road or a popular one. There have been many outraged people over various issues from welfare, health care and education. Bottom line is the budget is balanced and the province is debt free. This is the role of government. Tough decisions doesn't always ensure popularity but if it gets the job done I'm all for it.
Originally posted by sasquatch672Again an American political outlook to wich I'm unfamiliar with here in Canada. While we are conservative, abortions are completely legal and easily obtainable, without protesters by the dozens hanging outside of hospital wards.There isn't a choice denied to me under a conservative rule. I may just have to pay for certain services I wish to obtain. As for the war and patriotism thing, again more american. We are definately alot more laid back in that area as war is not an agenda here. I've just lived on both sides of the fences and if ever given a chance I would easily prefer conservative government. Keep in mind we don't have the same Democrat/Republican deal here. It is somewhat different and no matter which side of the fence you're on our leaders do have to take their lead from us, the people. We have had many laws changed and enacted by simply voicing enough concern and/outrage.
Mokko, I agree with alot of what you said but what you're not realizing is that traditional conservatism has been overtaken by anti-abortion freaks and holy rollers who are jumping for joy that one of "their guys" finally got in. They don't care about numbers - they don't understand numbers. They have a very badly defined sense of patriotism - th ...[text shortened]... rstand - abortion is bad - are not. I don't know what they are, but they're not conservative.
For a good laugh go here:
http://www.cbc.ca/22minutes/video.html
They're all funny! Check out the conservative ads 😉
Originally posted by mokkoYou're right Mokko. Your idea of "conservative" is much different than ours. Sasquatch explains some of that in his post above. Conservative politics in the US has come to mean something that is quite scary. I think your definition of conservative would actually be considered "moderate" in our political climate here.
Again an American political outlook to wich I'm unfamiliar with here in Canada. While we are conservative, abortions are completely legal and easily obtainable, without protesters by the dozens hanging outside of hospital wards.There isn't a choice denied to me under a conservative rule. I may just have to pay for certain services I wish to obtain. As for th ...[text shortened]...
http://www.cbc.ca/22minutes/video.html
They're all funny! Check out the conservative ads 😉
Originally posted by sasquatch672TRUE DAT
Mokko, I agree with alot of what you said but what you're not realizing is that traditional conservatism has been overtaken by anti-abortion freaks and holy rollers who are jumping for joy that one of "their guys" finally got in. They don't care about numbers - they don't understand numbers. They have a very badly defined sense of patriotism - th ...[text shortened]... rstand - abortion is bad - are not. I don't know what they are, but they're not conservative.
Originally posted by sasquatch672I say we bring back tarring and feathering. I love the thought of a bunch of Senators covered in hot tar and chicken feathers.
Well, we've got people like Rush Limbaugh and Neil Boortz. One of the best things that could happen to America would be if the two of them were crossing the street together on their way to an expensive lobbyist dinner and got hit by a bus. "Conservatives" and "liberals" were at each others' throats during the election; it calmed down for about f ...[text shortened]... er.
We need to throw every last one of these motherfucking thieving bastards out of office.
Maybe I'm just kinky?
I always enjoyed those old cartoon drawings in my history books in school of tarred and feathered folks. Usually they were politicians. They always had that surprised look on their face that said "I can't believe this is happening to me!".
Let's bring back that look.
Originally posted by wibI think the reason we are considered more the moderate conservative is simply on the basis that the people speak out. I'm sure if we all sat and did nothing conservatives could quite easily turn into something scary. Luckily, enough of the population is middle of the road. We are in support of responsible budgeting in government but also to a great extent in personal freedoms. It's us the voters who make the politicians represent and speak for us. Right now gay marriage is the political focus. As conservatives most are oppsed to it, but those of us who believe in free choice have the option to speak loudly enough to have those same representatives of the conservative party take a wider stance on the issue. While the rest of liberal Canada is all for it our own conservative Alberta is strongly adament about not allowing it. Once enough people voice there concerns of government interferring where they don't belong the conservatives will back down. Give the people what they want. It seems to me, and I may be wrong, but it seems the only voices being heard in American prliment are those of the wealthy elite. The average joe on the street doesn't feel that by going to their local Member of parliment anything will be accomplished. Well I have personally gone to my MP with personal concerns and I have seen immidiate results. Although not always so quickly accomplished it's an option I feel confident in. It's all in your approach. You can't just go barging in on these people in a state of rage over what's being done. You need to be organized and calm in your reasoning and you have a greater chance at invoking change.
You're right Mokko. Your idea of "conservative" is much different than ours. Sasquatch explains some of that in his post above. Conservative politics in the US has come to mean something that is quite scary. I think your definition of conservative would actually be considered "moderate" in our political climate here.