Bernie raving today about 'They Have Human Rights!!"
When someone says they have a right to healthcare, or education or housing, How can someone have rights when everyone else has the responsibility to provide it?. This means the person on welfare is superior to the person who is paying in to welfare. How can another person have to have the responsibility, for you to be able get the right? How can you take rights from the responsible person? This NOT Equal Protection Under The Law.
If they have the right, who has the responsibility to provide it.? If that is your idea of democracy, I hate democracy. You are saying that the majority can take whatever they want to from the minority, because they are the majority,... you are saying that the majority is always right. But they are NOT always right.
I wish we could have an honest discussion on this . I would think you would welcome it. Sock it to old Joe. I got my Dukes up! (please no mention of Trump)
@AverageJoe1 saidRights are moral obligations. It's pretty simple. Someone arrives in the emergency room of a hospital, doctors are morally obligated to care for this person.
Bernie raving today about 'They Have Human Rights!!"
When someone says they have a right to healthcare, or education or housing, How can someone have rights when everyone else has the responsibility to provide it?. This means the person on welfare is superior to the person who is paying in to welfare. How can another person have to have the responsibility, for you to be ...[text shortened]... ld think you would welcome it. Sock it to old Joe. I got my Dukes up! (please no mention of Trump)
The question under your question is who pays for the care if the person needing care cannot afford it?
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@wildgrass saidSubject is about responsibility of a person to another person who exercises rights given to said person under the law.
Rights are moral obligations. It's pretty simple. Someone arrives in the emergency room of a hospital, doctors are morally obligated to care for this person.
The question under your question is who pays for the care if the person needing care cannot afford it?
The ER has a legal duty to remove the appendix. There are people who are charged with said responsibility, providing Emergency Room and Drs.
I think we are in agreement so far. The morality issue doesn’t quite fit into this discussion, however, which is about legal requirements that the responsible person, well, has to provide the service of ER.
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@wildgrass saidYes, the hypocratic oath and such, no question. But not at issue. That ‘obligation’ is between him and the Board of Medicine
Rights are moral obligations. It's pretty simple. Someone arrives in the emergency room of a hospital, doctors are morally obligated to care for this person.
The question under your question is who pays for the care if the person needing care cannot afford it?
I do not know what you mean by ‘rights are moral obligations’ I say not. Can’t wait for Marauderis thinking on that, he is digging through the books as we speak.
The moral obligations in any event would be ascribed to the person who has the responsibility which I refer to.. I am talking about their legal obligations.
Please allow me to back up one step so that we are on the same page as to morality and responsibility. If I am on the street with a rack of bread for sale, and a man comes by wanting a loaf for free, am I morally obligated to give it to him? Am I legally obligated to give it to him?
I simply submit that they are two different things.
@AverageJoe1 saidI wish we could have an honest discussion on this . I would think you would welcome it. Sock it to old Joe. I got my Dukes up! (please no mention of Trump)
Bernie raving today about 'They Have Human Rights!!"
When someone says they have a right to healthcare, or education or housing, How can someone have rights when everyone else has the responsibility to provide it?. This means the person on welfare is superior to the person who is paying in to welfare. How can another person have to have the responsibility, for you to be ...[text shortened]... ld think you would welcome it. Sock it to old Joe. I got my Dukes up! (please no mention of Trump)
First off; FK Trump!
Working illegal immigrants pay taxes just like everyone else. However, they can't get their tax refund check at the end of the year. They just donate it to our government.
Everyone has the human right to healthcare, education, and housing. God says so. Most of The whole world besides the USA gives free healthcare to their citizens you trumptarded dumb arse lying fool...
The only one around here not paying taxes is you fool. You certainly don't work as you're on this website nearly 24/7. Worthless trash...
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@KingDavid403 saidThank you for your contribution. I pulled this from your post::
I wish we could have an honest discussion on this . I would think you would welcome it. Sock it to old Joe. I got my Dukes up! (please no mention of Trump)
First off; FK Trump!
Working illegal immigrants pay taxes just like everyone else. However, they can't get their tax refund check at the end of the year. They just donate it to our government.
Ever ...[text shortened]... es is you fool. You certainly don't work as you're on this website nearly 24/7. Worthless trash...
' Everyone has the human right to healthcare, education, and housing. God says so. Most of The whole world besides the USA gives free healthcare to their citizens ''
I take issue with your 'human right' to healthcare, but respectfully, assuming that they have such a right, from whence does the right come? You do not close your comment, kind of leaving it hanging. The mystery of debate!
Secondly, so as not to go off-track on the thread, may we just deal with the USA..., I am hardly qualified to discuss the ways and means of other countries. Anyway, whatever our resolution, would the concept not apply all over the world? .... this issue of someone who has rights and who is responsible to provide them? It would be the same in, say, in Denmark, or with the communities of the Inuits.
@AverageJoe1 saidAre you stupid?
Bernie raving today about 'They Have Human Rights!!"
When someone says they have a right to healthcare, or education or housing, How can someone have rights when everyone else has the responsibility to provide it?. This means the person on welfare is superior to the person who is paying in to welfare. How can another person have to have the responsibility, for you to be ...[text shortened]... ld think you would welcome it. Sock it to old Joe. I got my Dukes up! (please no mention of Trump)
@AverageJoe1 saidNon sequitur.
Please allow me to back up one step so that we are on the same page as to morality and responsibility. If I am on the street with a rack of bread for sale, and a man comes by wanting a loaf for free, am I morally obligated to give it to him? Am I legally obligated to give it to him?
I simply submit that they are two different things.
Why do you do this?
@AverageJoe1 saidBecause you all live in the same village and picking winners and losers in terms of who gets healthcare or social welfare is truly backward and disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself as a citizen of the richest nation in the world for still thinking like that.
Bernie raving today about 'They Have Human Rights!!"
When someone says they have a right to healthcare, or education or housing, How can someone have rights when everyone else has the responsibility to provide it?. This means the person on welfare is superior to the person who is paying in to welfare. How can another person have to have the responsibility, for you to be ...[text shortened]... ld think you would welcome it. Sock it to old Joe. I got my Dukes up! (please no mention of Trump)
@kmax87 saidI appreciate your post, but it is a generalization which implies that our process of 'who qualifies' for food stamps, etc. is not a fair process. Yes, it is not perfect. Maybe a good thread to discuss,.. Welfare, and Who Gets It. Is it backward.
Because you all live in the same village and picking winners and losers in terms of who gets healthcare or social welfare is truly backward and disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself as a citizen of the richest nation in the world for still thinking like that.
But this thread is keyed on Bernie saying that 'Everyone Has A Human Right to Healthcare, Housing and Education". Do they? Housing, for god sakes?!!? So I immediately ran to the Forum and simply posted, that If someone has a right to something, someone else has to provide that right.
Can no one at least give this a shot? If I buy a house and move in, and then the govt comes to my door and says that I am required to provide housing for another person who does not have.a house...................................does that make sense?. Kmax here says 'backward'. Is this backward?
Can we at least agree that if someone has a right, that it has to come from someone else?? That someone else has to produce that which he has a right to?
A little philosophy on the Forum.
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@AverageJoe1 saidTrying to explain political philosophy to someone as dense and uneducated as yourself is as useful as discussing quantum physics with a parakeet.
I appreciate your post, but it is a generalization which implies that our process of 'who qualifies' for food stamps, etc. is not a fair process. Yes, it is not perfect. Maybe a good thread to discuss,.. Welfare, and Who Gets It. Is it backward.
But this thread is keyed on Bernie saying that 'Everyone Has A Human Right to Healthcare, Housing and Education". Do they? ...[text shortened]... hat someone else has to produce that which he has a right to?
A little philosophy on the Forum.
The Declaration of Independence says where rights come from and it's not "from someone else". That said, it's hardly novel to recognize that protection of some rights requires action by others; for example, the right to a trial by jury acknowledged in the Sixth Amendment means others will be compelled to be on that jury.
I missed where Bernie or AOC stated a right to housing requires present homeowners to allow others into their homes against their wishes though. Maybe you could provide a link.
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@AverageJoe1 saidI've said it 100,000 times but I will say it again. SOMEDAY you will understand me:
When someone says they have a right to healthcare, or education or housing, How can someone have rights when everyone else has the responsibility to provide it?
"Government exists to protect ALL our rights. EQUALLY. AT THE SAME TIME."
You were railing about 'inferior-superior' and how 'rich people have to support everyone'. NO. BULLSCAT. That's been horseradish since rich Southerners said they couldn't end slavery because then they'd suddenly have to pay for schools for all the free poor slaves!
ONE. Education. We have a right to education because everyone needs to have the same understanding of the Rules of Society. The Laws. What you have to do. What you cannot do. Free Public Education is a right because you can't expect people to follow instructions IF YOU DON'T GIVE THEM INSTRUCTION!!! You want people to pay taxes? Serve on juries, etc.? Then they have to be able to read and do math. Do you want people to obey the Law? Then tell them what the Law is.
Idea: "Oh, we can privatize all that." NO. You can't. Because you have no idea what a "private school" will teach. It might be the law, it might not be.
Do you have the right to be educated as a plumber or marine biologist? No. That you can pay for on your own.
TWO. Housing. You can't say “... they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are Life, ....” and then say "But you can't live here. Or over there. No, not there either. No, you can't live here. Or on that public land? No, not for you. That park is closed. Nope, sorry - keep moving citizen." You can't say that people have the Right to Life but no Right to Live Anywhere. That's a logical contradiction. It doesn't work because it never CAN work.
We need public land to ensure we all have the right to freedom of association. Without a public road in front of your house, you cannot leave your property. But someone without a home needs to sleep - so he sleeps on the road in front of your house. He HAS THAT RIGHT. But you say, 'This is annoying. Ok, let's build a shelter or low-cost housing or tiny homes. I prefer that.' And government says fine we'll raise your taxes and do that instead. Becuse YOU want it!
THREE. Healthcare. When we said that only doctors can treat patients and only pharmacies can dispense drugs and no hospitals can be built except by permit we TOOK AWAY people's right to seek healthcare. We also made healthcare very expensive in the process. We could have had the right to seek healthcare however and wherever we want - but we don't. That right has been taken. So - either give us our rights BACK, or make healthcare into a public utility with regulated prices. Make healthcare like water or electricity or trash pick-up - or even like police protection (which nobody pays for out of pocket.) Again - you have built an unfair, illogical system. Fix it. 😆
And your final question: "Why do I have to pay for all this?" Because your OBLIGATION and my obligation and all of our obligations is to PROTECT ALL OUR RIGHTS EQUALLY. I don't have the right to ignore it when your rights are violated. You don't have the right to ignore it when my rights are violated. We call that 'civilization' and it differs from 'anarchy.' We've tried anarchy many times in human history. We don't like it. So we got rid of it.
Taxes discharge your obligation to pay to protect all our rights equally. And we tax in proportion to your resources - which is fair. If you have more resources, you pay more because, as with insurance, you are getting protection for more wealth. And rights are protected AS A GROUP because they apply to ALL PEOPLE EQUALLY (do you get this? ALL people). You can't say, "I am willing to pay to protect my property rights but I don't want to pay for the right to education" because poor people with no property would say the reverse: "Don't care about protecting property. Just give me my right to education!"
See? It doesn't work to split it up.
WE ALL have the responsibility to protect ALL our rights EQUALLY AT THE SAME TIME. So we pay taxes to fund a government that does that.
Clear now? Whew! My fingers are tired... 😆