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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    12 Mar '12 00:59
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17334646

    Should the staff sergeant (possibly with others) who is thought to have done this perhaps be given a general discharge under honourable conditions, like Frank Wuterich?
  2. 12 Mar '12 01:14
    Originally posted by FMF
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17334646

    Should the staff sergeant (possibly with others) who is thought to have done this perhaps be given a general discharge under honourable conditions, like Frank Wuterich?
    A full investigation should determine the nature of charges and punishment after a trial determines guilt.
  3. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    12 Mar '12 01:22
    Originally posted by normbenign
    A full investigation should determine the nature of charges and punishment after a trial determines guilt.
    A full investigation and a trial resulted in Frank Wuterich getting a general discharge under honourable conditions after an even larger number of innocent civilians were murdered by him and those under his command in 2005, and after he pled guilty to a single count of negligent dereliction of duty. So a benchmark has been set. What do you reckon about that benchmark?
  4. 12 Mar '12 01:54
    Originally posted by FMF
    A full investigation and a trial resulted in Frank Wuterich getting a general discharge under honourable conditions after an even larger number of innocent civilians were murdered by him and those under his command in 2005, and after he pled guilty to a single count of negligent dereliction of duty. So a benchmark has been set. What do you reckon about that benchmark?
    Don't know the facts of the case. If a coverup is involved, it harms the US. A nation can't claim status of international globocop while condoning murder.
  5. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    12 Mar '12 02:03
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Don't know the facts of the case. If a coverup is involved, it harms the US. A nation can't claim status of international globocop while condoning murder.
    You don't know anything about the Frank Wuterich case? So you don't know whether the U.S. can, in fact, "claim status of international globocop", or whether the U.S. was harmed, in the wake of that case?
  6. 12 Mar '12 02:13
    Originally posted by FMF
    You don't know anything about the Frank Wuterich case? So you don't know whether the U.S. can, in fact, "claim status of international globocop", or whether the U.S. was harmed, in the wake of that case?
    That is true. I await further enlightenment. If in fact there were premeditated massacres, it would be morally repugnant to slap the perp on the wrist.

    Tell us more about the facts, or suggest reading material.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    12 Mar '12 02:19
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Tell us more about the facts, or suggest reading material.
    The news and analysis about the Frank Wuterich case is in the public domain and has been discussed on several threads on this forum. There is a lot going on out there in the world. Nobody can keep on top of it all. If you're not interested, just let it pass.
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Mar '12 02:51
    Originally posted by FMF
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17334646

    Should the staff sergeant (possibly with others) who is thought to have done this perhaps be given a general discharge under honourable conditions, like Frank Wuterich?
    There's no comparison between this case and Wuterich. The latter case was a combat situation and, though Wuterich seemingly acted wrongfully, that was nothing like this case, which was apparently a cold blooded shooting rampage to kill civilians.

    In this case, the perpetrator is either insane, in which case he should be sent to a mental hospital for the criminally insane, or he's not, in which case he should be imprisoned for life.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    12 Mar '12 02:58
    Originally posted by sh76
    There's no comparison between this case and Wuterich. The latter case was a combat situation and, though Wuterich seemingly acted wrongfully, that was nothing like this case, which was apparently a cold blooded shooting rampage to kill civilians.

    In this case, the perpetrator is either insane, in which case he should be sent to a mental hospital for the criminally insane, or he's not, in which case he should be imprisoned for life.
    Should Wuterich have been imprisoned for life? He and his men lied about coming under fire and about the twenty four innocents they slaughtered being armed. If not "life", how long do you think? [I know you were unhappy with the sentence passed down.]
  10. 12 Mar '12 08:34
    Originally posted by FMF
    Should Wuterich have been imprisoned for life? He and his men lied about coming under fire and about the twenty four innocents they slaughtered being armed. If not "life", how long do you think? [I know you were unhappy with the sentence passed down.]
    Indications so far would suggest that the guy had some kind of mental breakdown and some concern over number of tours in Iraq. Globocop might have to take corporate responsibility for this one; having said that, they probably should have taken some for the Wuterich atrocities.
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    12 Mar '12 08:56 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    Indications so far would suggest that the guy had some kind of mental breakdown and some concern over number of tours in Iraq. Globocop might have to take corporate responsibility for this one; having said that, they probably should have taken some for the Wuterich atrocities.
    Utherpendragon 'explained' it on another thread Thread 144774 - and I invite him to correct me if I am paraphrasing it incorrectly, but I'll just go ahead and paste the exact words if necessary - in the Wuterich case, virtually everybody lied about what happened and lied about each other, and lied about themselves, so one part of the military struck a deal with another part of the military, and acquitted them all - yep, they just acquitted them alland so justice was apparently done, with 24 innocent men women and children murdered, and all. Don't buy it myself. Not sure if utherpendragon bought into it either. I reckon it was some kind of men-in-uniform loyalty reflex because it didn't make sense and then he almost immediately disappeared with his tail between his legs, as has been his wont of late.
  12. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    12 Mar '12 09:09
    Originally posted by FMF
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17334646

    Should the staff sergeant (possibly with others) who is thought to have done this perhaps be given a general discharge under honourable conditions, like Frank Wuterich?
    If the alleged perpetrator was serving in a military force in a war zone, this would qualify as a war crime.

    It would be inappropriate for the military force in which he was serving to be responsible for his trial since the possibility of a biased judgement would be very large.
  13. 12 Mar '12 09:20
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    If the alleged perpetrator was serving in a military force in a war zone, this would qualify as a war crime.

    It would be inappropriate for the military force in which he was serving to be responsible for his trial since the possibility of a biased judgement would be very large.
    I could be wrong but I do not think that the U.S has signed the necessary paper work that would allow a U.S seviceman/woman to be tried by the 'war crimes commission'.
  14. 12 Mar '12 09:54
    Originally posted by FMF
    Utherpendragon 'explained' it on another thread Thread 144774 - and I invite him to correct me if I am paraphrasing it incorrectly, but I'll just go ahead and paste the exact words if necessary - in the Wuterich case, virtually everybody lied about what happened and lied about each other, and lied about themselves, so one part of the military struc ...[text shortened]... lmost immediately disappeared with his tail between his legs, as has been his wont of late.
    The wuterich case might re-surface if they find evidence that this socio-path took the treatment of wuterich into account when deciding on wether or not to carry out this massacre. I still do not think a human being can carry out this kind of atrocity without there being some sort of mental health issue which is why I am always surprised and disappointed that the brass involved at a man management level seem to walk away unscathed. I do not understand the 'closing of ranks' on this issue, These guys have betrayed their countries trust and placed their buddies even more harms way due to insurgents/talibans tendency for reprisals.
  15. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    12 Mar '12 12:32
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    I could be wrong but I do not think that the U.S has signed the necessary paper work that would allow a U.S seviceman/woman to be tried by the 'war crimes commission'.
    You may be right. But the US has conducted war crimes trials in the past, so I don't think they are opposed in principle but more around the implementation.