Newtown massacre and religion

As soon as Presdient Obama started quoting scripture last night I turned on the mute button and waited for the Pats-SF game to come back. Wake me up when we get to policy discussion. I don't care what you think God thinks about the wanton murder of children.

Anyway, I noticed a cartoon making the rounds on Facebook of a bunch of children in a classroom in the sky with Jesus reading them a story. All the re-posters and commenters were saying how this makes them feel better and it's so nice, blah blah blah.

Maybe that's why we need religion in society. I happen not to be a very emotional person, but maybe very emotional people simply can't handle the harsh realities of the world. Maybe the image that Jesus is sitting there reading stories to the dead children is what allows some people to avoid being overwhelmed by the incident.

If so, it would seem to me to be a strong reason for religion to exist. Yes it's a shame that religion sometimes mutates to the point where it encourages things like jihad and homophobia and whatnot, but could it be that some sort of religion is a natural part of evolution? After all, the vast majority of independent'e developed societies developed some sort of religion.

The role religion plays in US politics is a bit peculiar to me. Perhaps this is because US political discourse is so shallow and people tend not to talk about actual issues. Even Christian democrat politicians I am used to rarely bring up religion when discussing politics, and for sure wouldn't say something as hollow and meaningless as "God bless Holland!".

I don't agree with your assessment that people "need" religion. Sure, some people are a bit weaker mentally than others, but most people I know are not religious and they seem to be doing just fine. As for the evolutionary origins of religion, there is quite a lot of analysis on the topic. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_origin_of_religion

Originally posted by sh76
As soon as Presdient Obama started quoting scripture last night I turned on the mute button and waited for the Pats-SF game to come back. Wake me up when we get to policy discussion. I don't care what you think God thinks about the wanton murder of children.

Anyway, I noticed a cartoon making the rounds on Facebook of a bunch of children in a classroom in th l, the vast majority of independent'e developed societies developed some sort of religion.

As our need to question how the world works necessarily precedes our ability to answer it, religion will inevitably spring up in any community. If the first men were scientifically literate, however, I doubt very much that religion would have ever been brought up. So I don't think it's a result of any evolutionary hard wiring that causes its prevalence.

Originally posted by sh76
As soon as Presdient Obama started quoting scripture last night I turned on the mute button and waited for the Pats-SF game to come back. Wake me up when we get to policy discussion. I don't care what you think God thinks about the wanton murder of children.

Anyway, I noticed a cartoon making the rounds on Facebook of a bunch of children in a classroom in th ...[text shortened]... l, the vast majority of independent'e developed societies developed some sort of religion.

I think that is only because there were things that ancient man could
not understand. They were beyond his comprehension and therefore
must have seemed to be supernatural. So what he did not understand
he believed was more powerful than him and so he treated such things
as a deity.

But now, many centuries later with the benefit of education
man can understand the world around him and it is not as magical
as ancient man thought it was.

We have progressed so much with education that all these supernatural
things that went before can now be explained in a rational manner.
Yes we still have much to learn, but now we see that man is taking on
religion.

Religious organizations and their leaders no longer hold the fascination
that we previously had for them. Thanks to education we now see them for
what they really are and we don't like what they represent. Vocations are
falling in the Catholic religion where I live and members are leaving the
church in droves because ordinary people now see what the Catholic church
is really like. Primitive, selfish, and domineering over women.

They, just like all other religion are only interested in their own institution.
They don't care about you or any GOD.

More education is the way forward.

Not superstitious mumbo jumbo religious groups
who cannot prove emphatically that there is a GOD.

Originally posted by sh76
As soon as Presdient Obama started quoting scripture last night I turned on the mute button and waited for the Pats-SF game to come back. Wake me up when we get to policy discussion. I don't care what you think God thinks about the wanton murder of children.

Anyway, I noticed a cartoon making the rounds on Facebook of a bunch of children in a classroom in th l, the vast majority of independent'e developed societies developed some sort of religion.

We take prayer out of schools, forbid morality from being taught in them, and we cannot so much as spank children today in school for "bad" behavoir, God forbid anything be labelled "bad", and we wonder why mass murder is in vogue these days.

Moral fiber and learning self control is much more important than arming citizens with knowledge, yet it is ignored by the public education system. In fact, arming amoral people with knowledge only compounds the problems of evil.

So go ahead, laugh at the religious folk for being "emotional". In fact, emotion is part of what makes us human Mr. Spock, especially when 20 kids are gunned down. I suppose you prefer a society which mocks religion and prefers the morality of someone like Marx who also mocks religion. That way society will devolve into one focused only on materalism and how we can obtain more of it and forever more ignore the condition of our collective hearts and souls. But when the mob comes after what you have sh, maybe you will actually be able to shed a tear for what America has become.

Originally posted by whodey
We take prayer out of schools, forbid morality from being taught in them, and we cannot so much as spank children today in school for "bad" behavoir, God forbid anything be labelled "bad", and we wonder why mass murder is in vogue these days.

Moral fiber and learning self control is much more important than arming citizens with knowledge, yet it is ignored ...[text shortened]... t you have sh, maybe you will actually be able to shed a tear for what America has become.

" forbid morality from being taught in them,"

You mean your brand of morality, based on your brand of religion?

"In fact, arming amoral people with knowledge only compounds the problems of evil."

But arming religious survivalist's with combat weapons, that's never compounded the problems of Evil has it Whodey, Oh wait maybe it has.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
[b]I think that is only because there were things that ancient man could
not understand.

Modern man has a few understanding issues as well.

For example, how will the Occupy Wall Street crowd destroy corporate America when governmnet will just use their tax money to bail them back out again?

How many dead Ambassadors will it take before realizing that meddling in the affairs of foriegn countries may not be such a great idea?

How can a government based upon the Constitution pass the NDAA which usurps our right to due process?

How can we spend our way out of debt?

How can a government with a Congress that has an approval rating of only 13%, not only continue to elect the same people year after year, but also still be considered representative of the people?

I think those are the only reamaining questions modern man has. Outside of that, he has pretty much mastered all knowledge. LOL.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
" forbid morality from being taught in them,"

You mean your brand of morality, based on your brand of religion?

"In fact, arming amoral people with knowledge only compounds the problems of evil."

But arming religious survivalist's with combat weapons, that's never compounded the problems of Evil has it Whodey, Oh wait maybe it has.

All I know is that prayer was taken out of schools in 1962. The mass shooting epidemic began in the mid 1960's.

Why do you think that was? In addition, is the moral fiber of people today better than before my version of God had been stripped from society? Could you go to bed at night without so much as locking your door?

And you are right, even if you raise children in a moral vacuum, you are still teaching them morality of some kind. There is no getting around it. So I suppose the one with all the political power wins and should man up and they should own it.

Originally posted by whodey
Modern man has a few understanding issues as well.

For example, how will the Occupy Wall Street crowd destroy corporate America when governmnet will just use their tax money to bail them back out again?

How many dead Ambassadors will it take before realizing that meddling in the affairs of foriegn countries may not be such a great idea?

How can a gov ...[text shortened]... ing questions modern man has. Outside of that, he has pretty much mastered all knowledge. LOL.

Have a look at where I am from and broaden your vision.

There is life outside the USA, strange as it might seem to you.

America is not the centre of the universe.

It's an important part i agree, but there are 6 billion people on this planet.

Not all of them are American, you will have to look for a solution that
encompasses all of us and not just your precious little bubble.

Originally posted by whodey
All I know is that prayer was taken out of schools in 1962. The mass shooting epidemic began in the mid 1960's.

Do you have any facts to back that claim up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

Notice there were quite a few school shootings before 1962 - although many didn't seem to have the casualty list. I'm sure the numerous casualties has nothing to do with the capacity of the guns available or any other factors, but is solely because the children weren't forced to pray enough at school.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
Do you have any facts to back that claim up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

Notice there were quite a few school shootings before 1962 - although many didn't seem to have the casualty list. I'm sure the numerous casualties has nothing to do with the capacity of the guns available or any other factors, but is solely because the children weren't forced to pray enough at school.

Sorry, it's not coming up. Why not list the school shootings you are referring to.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
Have a look at where I am from and broaden your vision.

There is life outside the USA, strange as it might seem to you.

America is not the centre of the universe.

It's an important part i agree, but there are 6 billion people on this planet.

Not all of them are American, you will have to look for a solution that
encompasses all of us and not just your precious little bubble.

Yes, but this thread it about America spanky.

Originally posted by whodey
Sorry, it's not coming up. Why not list the school shootings you are referring to.

Your inability to copy & paste isn't my problem.

Originally posted by whodey
All I know is that prayer was taken out of schools in 1962. The mass shooting epidemic began in the mid 1960's.

Why do you think that was? In addition, is the moral fiber of people today better than before my version of God had been stripped from society? Could you go to bed at night without so much as locking your door?

And you are right, even if yo ...[text shortened]... o I suppose the one with all the political power wins and should man up and they should own it.

You do realise that since the mid 70's the US murder rate has halved? Violent crime has also decreased in the last 20 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Originally posted by sh76
As soon as Presdient Obama started quoting scripture last night I turned on the mute button and waited for the Pats-SF game to come back. Wake me up when we get to policy discussion. I don't care what you think God thinks about the wanton murder of children.

Anyway, I noticed a cartoon making the rounds on Facebook of a bunch of children in a classroom in th ...[text shortened]... l, the vast majority of independent'e developed societies developed some sort of religion.

Religion and drugs perform the same function, IMHO. Philosopher and country musician and pot expert Willie Nelson days pot makes you feel better. Asprin, ibuprophen, sodium naproxen all have the same function, and throw in prayer and listening to a preacher.

I especially want to gag when politicians, especially those who demonstrably believe that secular social policy by government is the magic oil to solve all problems, invoke prayer and God, and then pretend to be the instrument of that deity.

Even the hand wringers who just get to the point, and opportunistically utilize tragedy to promote the same old tired stuff they've been promoting all along, are better than those that try to team up with God on their side.