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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    09 Oct '13 01:37
    So, this is something that can't be undone. And this is playing politics, in as disgusting a manner as possible. Pure and simple. Moon - defend this.

    Military families are being denied - because of the shutdown - death benefits, including money to travel to Andrews Air Force Base to meet the bodies of their fallen service member.

    Somebody explain how this is ok.
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    09 Oct '13 01:42
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    So, this is something that can't be undone. And this is playing politics, in as disgusting a manner as possible. Pure and simple. Moon - defend this.

    Military families are being denied - because of the shutdown - death benefits, including money to travel to Andrews Air Force Base to meet the bodies of their fallen service member.

    Somebody explain how this is ok.
    The House of Representatives won't provide the funding.
  3. 09 Oct '13 02:24
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    The House of Representatives won't provide the funding.
    untrue.
    the house has passed 4 bills with all the funding in it and they are just collecting dust on harry reids desk.
  4. Standard member Grampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    09 Oct '13 03:25 / 1 edit
    Shutdown Denies Death and Burial Benefits to Families of 4 Dead Soldiers
    By JENNIFER STEINHAUER Published: October 8, 2013

    WASHINGTON — The families of four soldiers killed in Afghanistan last weekend will not receive death benefits or the money to pay for their funerals because of the government shutdown. Obama Insists, Spurning Talks (October 9, 2013)

    The bodies of Sgt. Patrick C. Hawkins, 25; Pfc. Cody J. Patterson, 24; Sgt. Joseph M. Peters, 24; and First Lt. Jennifer M. Moreno, 25, will arrive at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware on Wednesday. The four soldiers were killed Sunday in the Zhari district of Kandahar Province when enemy forces attacked their unit with explosives. But if their families want to meet the plane, they will have to pay their own way to Delaware.

    Under the shutdown, Carl Woog, a Defense Department spokesman, said on Tuesday, “the Department of Defense does not currently have the authority to pay death gratuities and other key benefits for the survivors of service members killed in action.” The benefits include $100,000 to each family; a 12-month basic allowance for housing, usually given in a lump sum to survivors commensurate with the rank of the service member; and burial benefits.

    New hardships caused by the shutdown seem to emerge every day as the standoff between President Obama and Congressional Republicans entered its second week. But the denial of benefits to the families of fallen soldiers — however temporary — led to an unusual burst of outrage. Senators took the floor to express their anger. In the House, members scrambled to write a bill to remedy the problem.

    “It’s an unbearable loss,” Senator Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, the majority leader, said on the Senate floor of the soldiers’ families. “But now they’re being denied death benefits because of this senseless shutdown. It’s shameful and embarrassing. “There are no words to describe this situation,” he said, “at least that I’m capable of expressing.”

    Pentagon military and civilian personnel have largely escaped furloughs through legislation signed by President Obama and on orders from the defense secretary. But the death benefits — at least for the families of military personnel killed since Oct. 1, when the government shut down — are not covered by either move.

    Last week, Congress quickly passed the Pay Our Military Act to ensure that active-duty soldiers and civilian support staff members were paid for their work. Over the weekend, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the Pentagon concluded that most of its 400,000 civilian employees were covered by the bill.

    Some House Republicans have suggested, without citing specific language in the bill, that it also covered death benefits. “The intent of Congress was to permit D.O.D. to honor all payment and allowances to service members,” Representative Duncan Hunter, Republican of California, said in a letter to Mr. Hagel.

    “The department’s decision to not make these payments is a matter of choice,” he added. “And until a correction is made to the law, it is up to you to make the appropriate judgment based on a more correct interpretation.” The House Appropriations Committee is moving to get a bill to the floor to reinstate the benefits as early as Wednesday. “Frankly, I think it’s disgraceful that they’re withholding these benefits,” Speaker John A. Boehner said in a brief news conference Tuesday afternoon. “But again tomorrow, the House is going to act specifically on this and I hope the president will sign it.”

    The Pentagon strongly denied that the current legislation allowed for the benefits to be paid without further Congressional action. “The fact that the House is developing new legislation on this matter shows Congress fully understands that D.O.D. does not have the legal authority to provide these death benefits,” a senior military official said. “Secretary Hagel is outraged and disgusted by this situation, but the law is clear.”

    Such legislation is likely to have strong support in both the House and Senate. “We ought to sit down and work it out,” said Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona.

    After Mr. Reid spoke, Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas, and one of the architects of the shutdown, came to the Senate floor to say, “All of us weep for those servicemen and women who have lost their lives in defense of our great nation, and I would note that this Senate can right now today move to correct the problem.”

    Senator Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, announced Tuesday that he had worked with Ken Fisher, the chief executive of Fisher House Foundation, a service group for veterans, to give families an advance grant to cover flights, hotels and other incidental costs for family members to attend funerals until the government can make reimbursements.

    “After losing a loved one in service to our nation, these families should not have to endure more pain as the result of political squabbling,” Mr. Fisher said in a statement." Jonathan Weisman contributed reporting.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/us/politics/shutdown-holds-up-death-benefits-for-military-families.html?_r=0

    Thanks, sasquatch, for the thread.
  5. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    09 Oct '13 04:59 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    So, this is something that can't be undone. And this is playing politics, in as disgusting a manner as possible. Pure and simple. Moon - defend this.

    Military families are being denied - because of the shutdown - death benefits, including money to travel to Andrews Air Force Base to meet the bodies of their fallen service member.

    Somebody explain how this is ok.
    This is OK because speaker Boehner won't bring anything to a vote in the house. If he did, this shutdown would have ended a week ago, and no one would be having this problem. Many older, non tea party republicans are unhappy with the path speaker Boehner is taking us down. If you're going to tell your story about this shutdown, then tell the WHOLE story Mr. Sasquatch...not just the part you want people to hear.
  6. 09 Oct '13 11:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    So, this is something that can't be undone. And this is playing politics, in as disgusting a manner as possible. Pure and simple. Moon - defend this.

    Military families are being denied - because of the shutdown - death benefits, including money to travel to Andrews Air Force Base to meet the bodies of their fallen service member.

    Somebody explain how this is ok.
    The Republicans in the House were warned of this specific issue, that no payment of military death benefits with a government shutdown. The Republicans said shut down the government anyway. Truly classless.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/us-usa-fiscal-mccain-idUSBRE99716120131008
  7. 09 Oct '13 11:44 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by moon1969
    The Republicans in the House were warned of this specific issue, that no payment of military death benefits with a government shutdown. The Republicans said shut down the government anyway. Truly classless.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/us-usa-fiscal-mccain-idUSBRE99716120131008
    There is clear outrage from both parties over halted payments to the grieving families of fallen servicemen and women, but how soon can the problem get fixed?

    Republican House Speaker John Boehner said that the lower chamber would “act specifically on this” issue Wednesday, signaling that a possible solution has begun working its way through Congress.

    And in the Senate, lawmakers from both sides of the aisle voiced anger in the wake of a series of NBC News reports over the past two days, beginning with an Andrea Mitchell report on TODAY, detailing the military’s delay of the $100,000 “death gratuities” designed to assist with funeral and travel costs until after the shutdown ends.

    Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called it “shameful and embarrassing.” And Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain told his colleagues that they should feel ashamed.

    The most likely solution would simply entail changing a few words of existing legislation that currently guarantees pay to members of the U.S. military during the government shutdown. Both the House and the Senate would need to pass it, and from there it would go to the president’s desk.
  8. 09 Oct '13 11:48
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    untrue.
    the house has passed 4 bills with all the funding in it and they are just collecting dust on harry reids desk.
    You mean the ones that defund or delay the ACA?

    Never going to happen, thank goodness. The Tea Party only controls the House, not the Senate or the Presidency, thank god.
  9. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    09 Oct '13 13:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    So, this is something that can't be undone. And this is playing politics, in as disgusting a manner as possible. Pure and simple. Moon - defend this.

    Military families are being denied - because of the shutdown - death benefits, including money to travel to Andrews Air Force Base to meet the bodies of their fallen service member.

    Somebody explain how this is ok.
    It is all about choices for example the Congress' gym/pool is open and the
    President's golf course is open, Vets were not allowed access to Government
    lands to see memorials, yet it was okayed for Illegals to go on the
    Government’s grounds to protest said it was okay.

    So someone in the government made the call that during a war we can
    take that away from our military and their family.
    Kelly
  10. 09 Oct '13 13:47
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    It is all about choices for example the Congress' gym/pool is open and the
    President's golf course is open, Vets were not allowed access to Government
    lands to see memorials, yet it was okayed for Illegals to go on the
    Government’s grounds to protest said it was okay.

    So someone in the government made the call that during a war we can
    take that away from our military and their family.
    Kelly
    Yep, the Obama administration is playing games for propaganda purposes in the selected closures.
    When they pull this gov't shut down nonsense the first thing that should be stopped is the paycheck and benefits of everyone in congress and every other federally elected official from the president on down.
    That'd fix the impasse real quick, the gravy-sucking hogs in Washington would come to an agreement before lunch.
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    09 Oct '13 17:19
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    Yep, the Obama administration is playing games for propaganda purposes in the selected closures.
    When they pull this gov't shut down nonsense the first thing that should be stopped is the paycheck and benefits of everyone in congress and every other federally elected official from the president on down.
    That'd fix the impasse real quick, the gravy-sucking hogs in Washington would come to an agreement before lunch.
    Unfortunately you're not the one who was elected to make these decisions.
  12. 09 Oct '13 18:09 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    Yep, the Obama administration is playing games for propaganda purposes in the selected closures.
    When they pull this gov't shut down nonsense the first thing that should be stopped is the paycheck and benefits of everyone in congress and every other federally elected official from the president on down.
    That'd fix the impasse real quick, the gravy-sucking hogs in Washington would come to an agreement before lunch.
    Congress is insulated. You know that. It is to protect the independence of Congress.

    This was definitely a failure by Congress. Congress has the power of the purse. You cannot get more core than that for a function of the legislative branch. The Tea Party definitely dropped the ball here, as they have with so many other Americans hurting under the Tea Party shutdown.

    Interestingly, this could all be resolved in 15 minutes if Boehner would let the CR vote go to the floor and the House members vote their conscience. The legislative democratic process.

    What is just as striking is for something as important as the upcoming US default, Boehner will not let the debt ceiling vote go to the floor so that the House members can vote their conscience.
  13. 09 Oct '13 18:09
    Originally posted by moon1969
    You mean the ones that defund or delay the ACA?

    Never going to happen, thank goodness. The Tea Party only controls the House, not the Senate or the Presidency, thank god.
    No, the ones that fund certain parts of the government.

    They say nothing about Obamacare.
  14. 09 Oct '13 18:13
    Originally posted by Eladar
    No, the ones that fund certain parts of the government.

    They say nothing about Obamacare.
    Why choose funding treatment of a kid at the bloated bureaucratic NIH over funding feeding a hungry kid in Reagan's Head Start?

    I am glad the President and Reid are not letting the Tea Party play those games.

    This could all be resolved in 15 minutes if Boehner would let the CR he has on his desk from the Senate go to the floor and let the House members vote their conscience. The legislative democratic process.
  15. 09 Oct '13 18:15
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Why choose funding treatment of a kid at the bloated bureaucratic NIH over funding feeding a hungry kid in Reagan's Head Start?

    I am glad the President and Reid are not letting the Tea Party play those games.

    This could all be resolved in 15 minutes if Boehner would let the CR he has on his desk from the Senate go to the floor and let the House members vote their conscience. The legislative democratic process.
    Why shut down any more of the government than needs to be shut down?