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Debates Forum

  1. 12 Jul '11 17:00
    I dont have a link off hand but I understand there was only 18,000 jobs added last month.
    To keep up with population growth we need at least 125,000 added per month and 500,000 to lower the unemployment rate, so I hear.

    Obamas solution, besides the "shovel ready jobs" that were not as shovel ready as Obama thought (according to him) he says last week we need to change our patent laws.
    Yeah thats its Barry!
    Thats what we need to focus on to put people back to work! And we want 4 more years of this?!
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    12 Jul '11 17:16
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    I dont have a link off hand but I understand there was only 18,000 jobs added last month.
    To keep up with population growth we need at least 125,000 added per month and 500,000 to lower the unemployment rate, so I hear.

    Obamas solution, besides the "shovel ready jobs" that were not as shovel ready as Obama thought (according to him) he says last ...[text shortened]...
    Thats what we need to focus on to put people back to work! And we want 4 more years of this?!
    What should be done to lower the unemployment rate?
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Jul '11 18:14 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    What should be done to lower the unemployment rate?
    I think the relationship between the enormous federal budget deficit and the poor employment numbers is more real than people like to admit. People who have no confidence in the dollar and the political system are less likely to want to invest in new ideas, new jobs, new companies, etc.

    So, first, Obama can let the Bush tax cuts expire this time (his next chance is Jan. 1, 2013, which may be his last act if the economy doesn't improve). At the same time, he can cut wasteful federal spending so that the budget looks something a bit closer to being balanced.

    Second, Obama can push through legislation that makes health insurance premiums tax deductible for individuals as well as businesses. This puts less pressure on businesses to offer health insurance and allows them to create more jobs. Eliminating the Bush tax cut will pay for this tax expenditure many times over.

    Third, Obama can order his administrative agencies to do what is necessary to loosen the credit market that has been tighter than a... well, let's just leave it at tight... since the crash of 2008.

    Then he and his inner circle can think of some more...
  4. 12 Jul '11 19:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    I think the relationship between the enormous federal budget deficit and the poor employment numbers is more real than people like to admit. People who have no confidence in the dollar and the political system are less likely to want to invest in new ideas, new jobs, new companies, etc.

    So, first, Obama can let the Bush tax cuts expire this time (his next c at tight... since the crash of 2008.

    Then he and his inner circle can think of some more...
    What you say may be true but hearing people debate how Barry Obama can save the country this way or that ad nauseum makes me want t spew.

    If the fate of the country truly resides in one man, then we are all doomed.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Jul '11 19:26
    Originally posted by whodey
    What you say may be true but hearing people debate how Barry Obama can save the country this way or that ad nauseum makes me want t spew.

    If the fate of the country truly resides in one man, then we are all doomed.
    There's no "fate of the country." The country will live either way. As President, President Obama has the power to do things to improve the lives of people or to make them worse, depending on his decisions.
  6. 12 Jul '11 19:30
    Originally posted by sh76
    There's no "fate of the country." The country will live either way. As President, President Obama has the power to do things to improve the lives of people or to make them worse, depending on his decisions.
    President Obama and the federal government may not have the ability to save us, but they certainly can try to destroy us.

    As we have seen with Arizona and Texas, its time states rose up and began to challenge the over reaching poiwer of the Federal government. Since the checks and balances are broken federally, this seems to be the only option left.
  7. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    13 Jul '11 10:52
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    I dont have a link off hand but I understand there was only 18,000 jobs added last month.
    To keep up with population growth we need at least 125,000 added per month and 500,000 to lower the unemployment rate, so I hear.

    Obamas solution, besides the "shovel ready jobs" that were not as shovel ready as Obama thought (according to him) he says last ...[text shortened]...
    Thats what we need to focus on to put people back to work! And we want 4 more years of this?!
    I'm sure Sarah Palin would do much better!
  8. 13 Jul '11 10:59
    Originally posted by sh76
    As President, President Obama has the power to do things to improve the lives of people or to make them worse, depending on his decisions.
    But are the steps taken to reduce unemployment a direct result of decision made by Obama, or he just the figure head of a much larger group of people? Are the decision makers all in his party?
    If he is to take the blame for everything, why was he not given free reign when it came to other decisions like health?
  9. 13 Jul '11 11:02
    Is it possible that US employees are just over paid and need to learn to live with a pay cut?
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    13 Jul '11 13:13
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    But are the steps taken to reduce unemployment a direct result of decision made by Obama, or he just the figure head of a much larger group of people? Are the decision makers all in his party?
    If he is to take the blame for everything, why was he not given free reign when it came to other decisions like health?
    Figurehead??

    He has sole ultimate authority over every administrative agency in the country.

    He still has to work with Congress regarding legislation, but he has a lot of real power.

    I never said the President has to "take the blame for everything" but ultimately, a President can only be judged by the effectiveness of his policies. To this point, President Obama's economic policies have been largely ineffective. You can blame Bush or Reagan or Clinton or Boehner or Gingrich or McConnell or Palin or all of them, but the fact remains. Now, that could change in the next year; and for Obama's America's and my own sake, I hope it does.

    If you don't do the job, regardless of your excuses, the people are going to say thank you very much for your service and give someone else a chance, as it should be.
  11. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    13 Jul '11 13:15
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Is it possible that US employees are just over paid and need to learn to live with a pay cut?
    That's not necessary. There is economic growth even now and there is absolutely no reason that 3-5% annual economic growth is not sustainable for the foreseeable future.

    Besides, the probably is not pay cuts but the number of people not getting paid anything at all because they're out of work.
  12. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    13 Jul '11 23:56
    Originally posted by sh76
    I think the relationship between the enormous federal budget deficit and the poor employment numbers is more real than people like to admit. People who have no confidence in the dollar and the political system are less likely to want to invest in new ideas, new jobs, new companies, etc.

    So, first, Obama can let the Bush tax cuts expire this time (his next c ...[text shortened]... at tight... since the crash of 2008.

    Then he and his inner circle can think of some more...
    Another pantheon to "trickle down".

    There's virtually no evidence to support the idea that a budget deficit CONTRIBUTES to high unemployment and the historical record is strongly to the contrary.

    If Obama wants to dramatically reduce high unemployment, he needs to spend some money on necessary public investments. Of course, reforming the tax system so it no longer rewards unearned income over earned income would also be a good idea.
  13. Standard member telerion
    True X X Xian
    14 Jul '11 00:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    I dont have a link off hand but I understand there was only 18,000 jobs added last month.
    To keep up with population growth we need at least 125,000 added per month and 500,000 to lower the unemployment rate, so I hear.

    Obamas solution, besides the "shovel ready jobs" that were not as shovel ready as Obama thought (according to him) he says last ...[text shortened]...
    Thats what we need to focus on to put people back to work! And we want 4 more years of this?!
    Just link to the BLS. That's where the report comes from.

    I'll ask you the same question that I asked sh.

    What obvious (or not-so-obvious) job creation ideas do you expect? Where's the silver bullet?
  14. Standard member telerion
    True X X Xian
    14 Jul '11 01:30
    Originally posted by sh76
    I think the relationship between the enormous federal budget deficit and the poor employment numbers is more real than people like to admit. People who have no confidence in the dollar and the political system are less likely to want to invest in new ideas, new jobs, new companies, etc.

    So, first, Obama can let the Bush tax cuts expire this time (his next c ...[text shortened]... at tight... since the crash of 2008.

    Then he and his inner circle can think of some more...
    I agree that uncertainty plays a role in all this, but I don't think things are so much worse now with respect the debt or to the dollar (which isn't that weak really) to warrant the lack of hiring and investment.

    On your first point, Obama could let the tax cuts expire, but his own party won't allow that to happen for anyone below the $200/250K cut off. Worst yet, Republicans won't allow tax revenue to rise at all. Obama's not going to be able to let them expire even if he wanted to. BTW, I think letting them eventually expire (on everyone except the very poor) is the correct thing to do.

    I'm not sure how your second idea interacts with "Obamacare." Businesses would stand to benefit so perhaps they would hire more. I don't see why individuals need the tax deduction since the premiums are subsidized up to something like $75-80K of AGI.

    I have to take a lot of exception to your third statement. How is he going to "order" his agencies to loosen credit markets? Banks and firms are awash in cash. Many households aren't in any position to borrow. The Fed has kept interest rates basically at zero for a couple years now and even brought down longer term rates through QE2. I think this is out of Obama's control.
  15. 14 Jul '11 02:53
    Originally posted by telerion
    I agree that uncertainty plays a role in all this, but I don't think things are so much worse now with respect the debt or to the dollar (which isn't that weak really) to warrant the lack of hiring and investment.

    On your first point, Obama could let the tax cuts expire, but his own party won't allow that to happen for anyone below the $200/250K cut of ...[text shortened]... rought down longer term rates through QE2. I think this is out of Obama's control.
    Would you say that the problem is mostly on the demand side?