poverty and population

@joe-shmo said
Media bias "fact checkers" are made for simpletons that can't be bothered to think for themselves...They see something they don't like and they find a "fact checker" that agrees with them to justify their "no further research necessary" stance.

Hmmmmm, sounds like a conspiracy theory...

🙄

@phranny said
This is a trash website promoting psydo science and false information.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/global-research/

Nope. That is what mediabiasfactcheck is. It is leftist garbage meant to deceive. Try reading instead of trying to find a reason not to.

Facts matter. Attacking the source with bunk sources isn't factual. It is an effort to dismiss source material before reading facts that verify them.

Is reading my article a sin?
I think you are terrified of what you will be forced to accept.

@metal-brain said
Simple. Reduce poverty.
Are you in denial of the correlation?

I just wanted to make sure you were referencing humane solutions.

Sure it is safe to assume that reducing poverty reduces birth rates. But reducing population is another story. Less poverty will slow population growth but will not lower population for a long time. China implemented severe restrictions on birth that reduced the birth rate below the US for 36 years, and while it limited the rate of growth their population is still growing.

@wildgrass said
I just wanted to make sure you were referencing humane solutions.

Sure it is safe to assume that reducing poverty reduces birth rates. But reducing population is another story. Less poverty will slow population growth but will not lower population for a long time. China implemented severe restrictions on birth that reduced the birth rate below the US for 36 years, and while it limited the rate of growth their population is still growing.

I recall Japan had to create incentives for people to increase birth rates a while back. There are economic consequences for not having a population increase. How do you pay for social security and other entitlement programs with a decreasing population?

Perhaps you should do some more research into it before making a hasty judgement.

Published in the British Medical Journal, this case study involves a 16-year old girl who received the Gardasil vaccine. Soon after, and with prior normal menstruation and overall health, the girl went into menopause, destroying any future hope of having children.

https://naturalsociety.com/gardasil-vaccine-16-year-old-infertile/

@metal-brain said
I recall Japan had to create incentives for people to increase birth rates a while back. There are economic consequences for not having a population increase. How do you pay for social security and other entitlement programs with a decreasing population?

Perhaps you should do some more research into it before making a hasty judgement.

What hasty judgement did I make? You were the one suggesting a reduction in poverty to reduce population. But Japan's birth rate has been below 2 since 1970, and they are just now experiencing a reduction in population. I think maybe you're referring to the rate of population growth and not overall population, right? Unless you're talking about a very long term plan to reduce poverty and decrease population. Also, poverty in Japan is increasing not decreasing so the fact that population is decreasing with increases in poverty not exactly the best example for explaining your link between poverty and population.

@wildgrass said
What hasty judgement did I make? You were the one suggesting a reduction in poverty to reduce population. But Japan's birth rate has been below 2 since 1970, and they are just now experiencing a reduction in population. I think maybe you're referring to the rate of population growth and not overall population, right? Unless you're talking about a very long term plan to red ...[text shortened]... ses in poverty not exactly the best example for explaining your link between poverty and population.

What is your source of information?
You are making claims that are untrue.
Verify your claims.

I live in a small Indonesian fishing village, population about 400. At the entrance to the village is a symbolic, life - sized concrete statue of a dad, mum and two kids. This is a part of a government 'Two children is enough' initiative. It's not enforced, but it's encouraged. Children here are looked after (inoculated etc ) by the government up to the age of 5, after that there's no free health service, welfare payments or free education.
I know this doesn't add much to the discussion, and I won't go on otherwise this will turn into an essay, but it's a point of interest, perhaps, and the two kids thing is a jolly good idea in my opinion.

@indonesia-phil said
I live in a small Indonesian fishing village, population about 400. At the entrance to the village is a symbolic, life - sized concrete statue of a dad, mum and two kids. This is a part of a government 'Two children is enough' initiative. It's not enforced, but it's encouraged. Children here are looked after (inoculated etc ) by the government up to the age of 5, after ...[text shortened]... y, but it's a point of interest, perhaps, and the two kids thing is a jolly good idea in my opinion.

It is a valuable contribution in my opinion.

Some thesis:

* During history there have always be limits to available goods.

One reason why some people lived in poverty or died from starvation.

* Today the amount of food produced is exceeding the amount of nutrition the sum of all people need to avoid starvation.

So this is not the reason anymore. One reason is maldistribution (some feast on choice food, while other can't get at it).

* Today we are not sustainable. That means we (as humankind) take more out of the earth than can be reproduced.

So we should (and need to) reduce humankind as a whole to some sustainable level (it is unclear what that could be).

* We want each and every person to be free in choosing their individual lifestyle.

One consequence is that we can't oder people to limit the number of offspring, or use enforcing methods (I certainly hope that is consensus here).

Phil's contribution shows that Programms are in place to achieve that. But if we "just" reduce to 2 children per family (and assume that a number of 2.3 is needed to keep the number of people constant) we will see the effect in some generations. But of course in each generation we would have less people who need food (and other goods) reducing our foodprint),
The question here is then: Do we have that time?

@metal-brain said
Published in the British Medical Journal, this case study involves a 16-year old girl who received the Gardasil vaccine. Soon after, and with prior normal menstruation and overall health, the girl went into menopause, destroying any future hope of having children.

https://naturalsociety.com/gardasil-vaccine-16-year-old-infertile/

Then why don’t you provide a link to the report in the BMJ I’m not saying that one anomalous case that you describe couldn’t happen but surely you can link the original source?

@metal-brain said
What is your source of information?
You are making claims that are untrue.
Verify your claims.

I'm sorry I don't understand your lack of understanding. Please specify where you are confused or I can't comment.

@metal-brain said
What is your source of information?
You are making claims that are untrue.
Verify your claims.

You guys seem to be very good at placing the burden of proof on other poster's claim.
And usually you are always demanding a smoking gun (especially when it came to Trump).
Yet the claims you and those like you toss around these forums are about as flimsy as they come.

What if ????
What if ....... someone came along and challenged you to provide proof of something that shapes the lives of 25-30% of Americans every day.
Now before the howls of indignation commence about the subject being changed in this thread, I will remind you that my post is about the double standards being applied when it comes to burden of proof.
So I take the liberty of "smacking you right in the forehead" with this challenge.

Please provide me an absolute proof, a smoking gun" proof, that God exists.

(I've never had a post removed in these forums before. This might be a first)

@joe-shmo said
Media bias "fact checkers" are made for simpletons that can't be bothered to think for themselves...They see something they don't like and they find a "fact checker" that agrees with them to justify their "no further research necessary" stance.

People very much tend to settle in on the web site that prints happy news. In other words, a website that promotes what the seeker already believes.

happens every time. just about.

@wildgrass said
What hasty judgement did I make? You were the one suggesting a reduction in poverty to reduce population. But Japan's birth rate has been below 2 since 1970, and they are just now experiencing a reduction in population. I think maybe you're referring to the rate of population growth and not overall population, right? Unless you're talking about a very long term plan to red ...[text shortened]... ses in poverty not exactly the best example for explaining your link between poverty and population.

And how does that compare with China? You have not explained the discrepancy between those two examples. Explain why Japan has a low birth rate.

@metal-brain said
And how does that compare with China? You have not explained the discrepancy between those two examples. Explain why Japan has a low birth rate.

Apparently young people in Japan are shunning relationships and sex in quite significant numbers whilst the Chinese’s are not.
Do you want to do the birds and the bees thing now or will we leave it to your responsible adult.