@kevcvs57 saidMy advice would be to arrange a ceasefire so substantive talks could take place. In the interim, the West might offer to stop sending weapons to the Ukraine while the ceasefire was in effect.
We strike Russian positions with tactical nuclear weapons and drive them out of Ukraine and the Black Sea including Crimea.
What would your advice be, to let Putin strike Ukraines civilian population centres forever plus take Odessa shutting Ukraine off from the sea.
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@no1marauder saidGreat idea, now all you have to do is get Putin to agree to it and actually honor a cease fire.
My advice would be to arrange a ceasefire so substantive talks could take place. In the interim, the West might offer to stop sending weapons to the Ukraine while the ceasefire was in effect.
Which he won't do.
@jj-adams saidHe hasn't been offered one with a pause in providing weapons to the Ukraine.
Great idea, now all you have to do is get Putin to agree to it and actually honor a cease fire.
Which he won't do.
Might be worth a try IF there was really an interest in ending the war with something other than complete Russian defeat (which is unobtainable).
@no1marauder saidWhy would you stop sending weapons to Ukraine do you think the Russian army will not be resupplying their positions during the ceasefire?
My advice would be to arrange a ceasefire so substantive talks could take place. In the interim, the West might offer to stop sending weapons to the Ukraine while the ceasefire was in effect.
It’s for Ukraine to decide on terms but I would think ceding Crimea and the prewar Donbas Luhansk region and no NATO infrastructure on Ukrainian soil would be grudgingly acceptable by Ukraine. But the remainder must be recognised as sovereign by Moscow which includes the right to a fully armed military and EU membership if they choose that option.
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@no1marauder saidI would rate them the same as I would during the soviet era, the reality of M.A.D is still the overriding deterrent.
What would you rate the chances of all-out nuclear war IF we followed your insane policy prescriptions?
Every time we display our fear of that gamble the chances of Putin rolling those dice increases
It’s pretty obvious that Russia is not a conventional threat to the west as long as NATO or a Europe wide defence alliance remains in place making the nuclear option Putin’s only ace in the hole. The reticence the west keeps displaying in regard to the possibility of a nuclear exchange the more likely Putin is to use them.
I can envisage our fears resulting in Putin believing he could use nuclear weapons on a non nuclear NATO member in the reasonable belief that there would be no return of fire.
Maybe we are so civilised that we would never use our nuclear option in return but it’s not a good idea to tell Putin that.
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@kevcvs57 saidTricky situation any which way you look.....
Why would you stop sending weapons to Ukraine do you think the Russian army will not be resupplying their positions during the ceasefire?
It’s for Ukraine to decide on terms but I would think ceding Crimea and the prewar Donbas Luhansk region and no NATO infrastructure on Ukrainian soil would be grudgingly acceptable by Ukraine. But the remainder must be recognised as sover ...[text shortened]... cow which includes the right to a fully armed military and EU membership if they choose that option.
Sure glad we don't have a loose
cannon in The White House.
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@jimm619 saidYes, a senile old man being manipulated by God-knows-who is a much better person to be in charge at a critical time in history.
Tricky situation any which way you look.....
Sure glad we don't have a loose
cannon in The White House.
Say what you will about Trump, but I'd feel a lot more secure if he was in office.
@kevcvs57 saidBecause otherwise the Russians have no incentive to accept a ceasefire.
Why would you stop sending weapons to Ukraine do you think the Russian army will not be resupplying their positions during the ceasefire?
It’s for Ukraine to decide on terms but I would think ceding Crimea and the prewar Donbas Luhansk region and no NATO infrastructure on Ukrainian soil would be grudgingly acceptable by Ukraine. But the remainder must be recognised as sover ...[text shortened]... cow which includes the right to a fully armed military and EU membership if they choose that option.
@kevcvs57 saidNot even during the Cold War, was any rational leader of either side willing to risk a clash of conventional forces of the major powers. Both recognized the likely risk to nuclear escalation should such a war go badly for one side or the other.
I would rate them the same as I would during the soviet era, the reality of M.A.D is still the overriding deterrent.
Every time we display our fear of that gamble the chances of Putin rolling those dice increases
It’s pretty obvious that Russia is not a conventional threat to the west as long as NATO or a Europe wide defence alliance remains in place making the nuclear opt ...[text shortened]... ed that we would never use our nuclear option in return but it’s not a good idea to tell Putin that.
It's frankly astonishing that you do not.
@no1marauder saidI do but clearly Putin does not.
Not even during the Cold War, was any rational leader of either side willing to risk a clash of conventional forces of the major powers. Both recognized the likely risk to nuclear escalation should such a war go badly for one side or the other.
It's frankly astonishing that you do not.
I’m sorry the world is no longer as simple as the POTUS chatting with the Tsar and the little folks leave the big decisions to the two super powers.
Russia is not a super power any longer other than in terms of its nuclear arsenal.
Putin has decided that Russia must be a super power. Given that the above statement is true, but why do you fantasise that the west can just sit around hoping that Putin doesn’t figure that out and act accordingly. There may not be an option to a nuclear exchange of some kind. I believe the best way to avoid it is to be ready for it in terms of civil defence and look like it’s an option if needed.
I live just off the coast of Europe and me and my grandchildren would definitely be a target for Putin’s nuclear arsenal. I do not want thst I just do not agree that convincing Putin of that is the best way to prevent it, obviously you do.
@kevcvs57 saidPutin has not done anything that should trigger a conventional war between the superpowers.
I do but clearly Putin does not.
I’m sorry the world is no longer as simple as the POTUS chatting with the Tsar and the little folks leave the big decisions to the two super powers.
Russia is not a super power any longer other than in terms of its nuclear arsenal.
Putin has decided that Russia must be a super power. Given that the above statement is true, but why d ...[text shortened]... t I just do not agree that convincing Putin of that is the best way to prevent it, obviously you do.
What you seem to keep ignoring is that Ukraine is not part of NATO and was purposely excluded from that alliance so that the West would not have to respond to any attack on it by going to war. The West deciding to do so, as you keep agitating for, would be a serious and unexpected escalation of the conflict. I know you keep fantasizing that this attack now means that Putin is intent on sweeping across all of Europe, but there is literally nothing to support such paranoia.
@sonhouse saidTrump was just trying to use the money as leverage the same way Biden did before that. It was actually Obama that resisted the most because he correctly thought the weapons would end up in neo Nazi hands.
@Metal-Brain
And of COURSE totally ignoring the FACT JACK that TRUMP held up a half BILLION in military aid, I have a request though, just give me the APPEARANCE of dirt on the Bidens if you actually want that aid.
Yeah, REAL friend in Trump.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-ukraine-weapons-putin-invasion-b2027788.html
How successive U.S. administrations resisted arming Ukraine
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/obama-trump-biden-ukraine-military-aid-1.6371378
@kevcvs57 said"the reality of M.A.D is still the overriding deterrent"
I would rate them the same as I would during the soviet era, the reality of M.A.D is still the overriding deterrent.
Every time we display our fear of that gamble the chances of Putin rolling those dice increases
It’s pretty obvious that Russia is not a conventional threat to the west as long as NATO or a Europe wide defence alliance remains in place making the nuclear opt ...[text shortened]... ed that we would never use our nuclear option in return but it’s not a good idea to tell Putin that.
That is a myth.
If it was true nobody would feel the need to put nukes closer to Russia. The vast majority of people can live through a nuclear war if they prepare and know what to do. Don't get me wrong, the radiation fallout would be horrible, but if you can live in a basement for a few days most of it will blow away in the wind.