Socialized Medicine

It's amusing to watch Conservative American lawmakers warn about the "evils" of socialized medicine. There are two really big problems with there arguments however: 1. For many decades Conservatives have insisted compitition between companies would bring health care costs down, yet after all this time America still has the highest health care costs in the industrialized world. 2. These same conservative lawmakers don't seem to have any problem taking taxpayer supported health and dental care for themselves and there families. If they think taxpayer supported healthcare is so evil...why don't they refuse it for themselves??? 😏

It's similar to religion. People find it hard to let go of the ideas and dogmas they have been raised with. This explains the rise of creationism, but also it explains why libertarians and Republicans continue to worship the God of the Free Market blindly, even if it takes the ritual sacrifice of many, many billions and the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Take a look at New Zealands 'Make someone else pay, die while you wait, socialised medicine' predicament.

It's broke.

Part of the reason for this happening high lights one of the problems with "free" health care. They extended the physiotherapy cover, there was no longer any incentive to stop going to physio, my sister had a knee operation (yet another reason not to have socialised healthcare - sports injuries being paid for by people that don't play sports) she's fine but her physio treatment goes on and on, they just keep telling her to come back, or that department loses business and then they lose their budget.

The answer is so blindingly simple:

All those that believe in "Free" healh care sign up for it, and leave the rest of us alone.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Take a look at New Zealands 'Make someone else pay, die while you wait, socialised medicine' predicament.

It's broke.

Part of the reason for this happening high lights one of the problems with "free" health care. They extended the physiotherapy cover, there was no longer any incentive to stop going to physio, my sister had a knee operation (yet another ...[text shortened]... those that believe in "Free" healh care sign up for it, and leave the rest of us alone.

we should start by being honest.


first -- we've had a socialized medicine in place for decades. It's called Medicare and Medicaid. The people who "oppose" socialized medicine never propose to get rid of these programs.

and -- every system of healthcare must include some element of rationing. There are only so many providers and facilities available.

in the current US system, unless one is able to pay for their own treatment, the main rationers are the insurance companies -- they're the ones who determine who gets what coverage for what conditions under what circumstances.

the main issue is whether we want to allow the insurers to make these decisions or whether some sort of government agency should do so -- or perhaps there's some way of getting the free market to create a totally new way of doing things that's better than anything currently on the table.

Private medicine is cheaper for a community and an individual when it's dealing with short-term problems (acute).
However, when problems become chronic, private medicine becomes VERY expensive. This leads to insurance companies doing their level best to get out of paying. And people suffering.

I'm not even going to touch the attrocious situation with AIDS medicines in Africa... that's a whole other ball game altogether.

So it's a reflection of the sort of society you want. Do you want a society where people care for each other and make sure nobody has to suffer?
Or do you want a society based on individual advancement at the expense of a sense of community?

You won't fail to notice, however, that when individual advancement fails (whether it's medically or financially) it's the tax payer who foots the bill anyways...

Step to your corner and decide what you want.

Originally posted by shavixmir

So it's a reflection of the sort of society you want. Do you want a society where people care for each other and make sure nobody has to suffer?
Or do you want a society based on individual advancement at the expense of a sense of community?

Originally posted by Wajoma
You can't force people to care shav, what the welfare state does is promote and enhance an uncaring society.

See some one sick?

That's the gummints job eh

See some one out of work?

That's for the gubmint to look after.

So you decide which corner you're in, a caring, charitable society or state force.

Originally posted by Wajoma
You can't force people to care shav, what the welfare state does is promote and enhance an uncaring society.

See some one sick?

That's the gummints job eh

See some one out of work?

That's for the gubmint to look after.

So you decide which corner you're in, a caring, charitable society or state force.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Take a look at New Zealands 'Make someone else pay, die while you wait, socialised medicine' predicament.

It's broke.

Part of the reason for this happening high lights one of the problems with "free" health care. They extended the physiotherapy cover, there was no longer any incentive to stop going to physio, my sister had a knee operation (yet another ...[text shortened]... those that believe in "Free" healh care sign up for it, and leave the rest of us alone.

Originally posted by Wajoma
You can't force people to care shav, what the welfare state does is promote and enhance an uncaring society.

See some one sick?

That's the gummints job eh

See some one out of work?

That's for the gubmint to look after.

So you decide which corner you're in, a caring, charitable society or state force.

The social welfare state is the death of a caring, benevolent society.

There used to be numerous "Friendly Societies" in the UK, these were groups formed usually in the neighbourhood that would get together have working bees and help out those that needed it, not only helping the needy but a great tool for building community. As the state has taken over the role these groups have all but died off.

I know you guys want people that don't play sports to pay for sports injuries, I know you want those that exercise and take care of their diet to have their ability to pay for their own health care limited so as that they may go on the waiting list behind someone who has been reckless with their own health. I know you want someone that has opted entirely for private healthcare (thus making no demands on any other person) to pay for the health care of drug addicts and criminals. I know that you may want those vehemently opposed to abortion to have to pay for exactly that.

You got this grand idea you're better qualified at running my life then I am myself.

I know all that, all I was pointing out here is that people can't be forced to care, that the welfare state is not a sign of a caring society, that it is in fact the opposite. So don't try to make out it's a big brotherly/sisterly let's all love together fest.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
as opposed to "pay your own sh|t, if you don't have the money, die like a dog"

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Well, it would be great if people cared enough out of themselves. They don't.