Originally posted by WajomaCan't anyone who wants healthcare more urgently have it seen to at a private hospital in NZ, if they've got the money? The fact that the poor mostly use public hospitals makes it *easier* for the rich to get healthcare in private hospitals if they so wish.
Take a look at New Zealands 'Make someone else pay, die while you wait, socialised medicine' predicament.
It's broke.
Part of the reason for this happening high lights one of the problems with "free" health care. They extended the physiotherapy cover, there was no longer any incentive to stop going to physio, my sister had a knee operation (yet another ...[text shortened]... those that believe in "Free" healh care sign up for it, and leave the rest of us alone.
In any case, NZ's health system is somewhat inferior to Europe's, since the govt has spent less money on it than in Europe, but NZ's healthcare is still better than the US's.
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Originally posted by karnachzEvery country in Europe has a different health care system, perhaps it's a bit too much of a generalization to speak of a "European" health care system.
Can't anyone who wants healthcare more urgently have it seen to at a private hospital in NZ, if they've got the money? The fact that the poor mostly use public hospitals makes it *easier* for the rich to get healthcare in private hospitals if they so wish.
In any case, NZ's health system is somewhat inferior to Europe's, since the govt has spent less money on it than in Europe, but NZ's healthcare is still better than the US's.
Originally posted by torch71watch sicko.
Believe it or not, alot do not have health care here because they are to cheap to pay for it. This was my case for many years, although I did not try and take advantage of free health care or go to a public hostpital and make them foot my bill.
If you are at poverty level then you get medicaid(paid for by the tax payers) and that is ok to some extent.
...[text shortened]... driving away in thier lexus, bmw, escalades, after getting free food on the taxpayers expense.
michael moore may massage the facts a little, may show you what suits his show. but just watch it. and form your own opinion.
the problem with private health is that you don't know what you will need. will you choose a health plan that covers "reattachment of severed fingers" or will you choose to be careful? and if the latter, what will you do in case sh|t happens? another problem, and i said this before, is that you CANNOT trust someone who benefits from your death to save your life. insurance companies will rather let you die instead of paying for an expensive operation. will use any means necessary to find a mistake on your part. to bury you(sometimes literally) in paperwork.
also i don't agree that you get to see whatever doctor you wish. maybe if you have the money. but that is it. and we are talking exactly about the people with no money.
i also don't agree with rich people taking advantage of a free health system. it is health, you shouldn't have to pay for it. you don't live in civilization so you could have TV. you live for a sense of security and belonging. and better sense of belonging than to be viewed as a person in need of medical attention instead of an ATM machine that must spit out money.
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Originally posted by KazetNagorraAs Zahlanzi so eloquently stated--sure, I can go to any doc I want--but if I don't go to one they tell me to (one from their approved liist, I am SOL and have to pay for it. For me, that's not choice; it's extortion.
Actually, in the system I am currently participating in (semi-privatized), I can choose my doctor. In fact, there is no insurance company telling me who I should visit. This whole fairy tale about government telling you what doctor to visit is getting quite tiresome, really.
Originally posted by PinkFloydWell, I cannot go to a shaman for treatment if I have cancer and get my money back. I don't see the problem with that?
As Zahlanzi so eloquently stated--sure, I can go to any doc I want--but if I don't go to one they tell me to (one from their approved liist, I am SOL and have to pay for it. For me, that's not choice; it's extortion.
Originally posted by ZahlanziThe US system is socialized to an extent and what isn't socialized is controlled and regulated, including the insurance industry.
watch sicko.
michael moore may massage the facts a little, may show you what suits his show. but just watch it. and form your own opinion.
So why do you anti-freedom busybodies keep holding it up as an example of what is wrong with a free market medical system.
KN has posted stats which clearly show free markets = cheaper health care.
Originally posted by WajomaI have?
The US system is socialized to an extent and what isn't socialized is controlled and regulated, including the insurance industry.
So why do you anti-freedom busybodies keep holding it up as an example of what is wrong with a free market medical system.
KN has posted stats which clearly show free markets = cheaper health care.
Originally posted by Wajomabecause health shouldn't be free-market. in a free market economy if you don't have what it takes you bankrupt. in health, you die.
The US system is socialized to an extent and what isn't socialized is controlled and regulated, including the insurance industry.
So why do you anti-freedom busybodies keep holding it up as an example of what is wrong with a free market medical system.
KN has posted stats which clearly show free markets = cheaper health care.
you say we are anti-freedom. i say you are. when you are absolutely sure that no matter what hits the fan tomorrow you will be taken care of and not left to die or have your relatives indebted for all eternity, then you are free, at least from that threat.
Originally posted by Wajomacheaper for whom? the citizen or the government? do canadians pay more for their health?
The US system is socialized to an extent and what isn't socialized is controlled and regulated, including the insurance industry.
So why do you anti-freedom busybodies keep holding it up as an example of what is wrong with a free market medical system.
KN has posted stats which clearly show free markets = cheaper health care.
Originally posted by Wajomayou are forced to pay taxes to buy guns. yet when the horrible idea of paying taxes to pay for health comes, you yell communism, anti-freedom, tyranny. as if the thought of getting health care if you do not have enough money is abhorent to you.
Then you need lessons on what the F word means.
What ever bs you may come up with about your claim on my life just don't call it freedom, you display your ignorance.
ask the canadians if they feel bullied, tyrannized.
Originally posted by ZahlanziYour claim on my life is abhorrent to me.
you are forced to pay taxes to buy guns. yet when the horrible idea of paying taxes to pay for health comes, you yell communism, anti-freedom, tyranny. as if the thought of getting health care if you do not have enough money is abhorent to you.
ask the canadians if they feel bullied, tyrannized.
You've got something right.
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Originally posted by Wajomathe government already has a claim on your life. for the wrong reasons (funding wars, buying a new shiny tank, etc) and you are ok with that. when it comes to the government giving you health care without you having to pay extra for it you cringe. tank ok, hospital bed not ok. stupid.
Your claim on my life is abhorrent to me.
You've got something right.
and have you asked a canadian yet?
Originally posted by ZahlanziNever said anything about tanks.
the government already has a claim on your life. for the wrong reasons (funding wars, buying a new shiny tank, etc) and you are ok with that. when it comes to the government giving you health care without you having to pay extra for it you cringe. tank ok, hospital bed not ok. stupid.
and have you asked a canadian yet?
...and if I find a Canadian opposed to socialized health care what does that prove.
Freedom is the absence of force.
You want to force your values on me.
Zahlanzi = anti-freedom.
Even you can follow that logic, now like an alcoholic or drug addict the first step is to admit it to yourself, above all else be honest to your ownself.
Originally posted by WajomaAbsence of force? What does that mean? You're contradicting yourself again, the government needs to take your money by force to stop others taking your money by force.
Never said anything about tanks.
...and if I find a Canadian opposed to socialized health care what does that prove.
Freedom is the absence of force.
You want to force your values on me.
Zahlanzi = anti-freedom.
Even you can follow that logic, now like an alcoholic or drug addict the first step is to admit it to yourself, above all else be honest to your ownself.