The American Mess

Again, it is realized. Reform is needed. It is best that we all hope that this package works, because to hope that it fails is hoping that this country suffers.

Originally posted by Hugh Glass
To President Obama and all 535 voting members of the Legislature,


It is now official you are ALL corrupt morons:
* The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. You have had 234 years to get it right and it is broke.
* Social Securitywas established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broke.
* Fannie Mae was established ...[text shortened]... irst determine, just how success can be measured, what bench mark do we set for health care?

Don't forget the mess that is the Department of Education.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
Before I even address your list of "failed" government programs, let's get down to your question.

"AND YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM?? "

The bill does NOT have a government run health care system anywhere in it. That is not an opinion. It is a fact.

It has a host of provisions which lead inevitably to a single payer system. Its design is to kill off what is left of the private sector in health care.

Originally posted by normbenign
It has a host of provisions which lead inevitably to a single payer system. Its design is to kill off what is left of the private sector in health care.

If that is true we can all rejoice. I see absolutely no reason to continue to support companies that prosper by abusing the sick by sending them to the curb. Tell me please how health insurance companies at all embellish people or the country. They offer no product, rather they are thieves amd pimps that only offer any fondness when they can prosper from you.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The welfare state in western and northern Europe was established in the early 20th century. It has been an astounding success.

By what measure?

Stagnant economic growth? No national defense? Double digit unemployment? An immigration policy which threatens to overwhelm Europe with Islamic extremists?

Without the American mess, Europeans would now be a part of the Soviet Union.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I wish you right wing nuts would make up your minds; is health care reform going to raise taxes so high it kills the economy OR raise the deficit so much we're drowning forever in red ink? It can't do both like you claim it will (often in the same post).

How come universal health care has been sustainable for more than 50 years in virtually every other advanced country, but is unsustainable in ours?

First the argued notion that high taxes, and an increasing deficit are mutually exclusive is pure folly.

All taxation is harmful to economic activity. The higher the taxation, the greater the harm. As tax rates grow, receipts tend to diminish, economic activity slows down, and deficits grow.

Sustainable doesn't equal best possible. Universal is a cruel lie. Rationing is a reality.

Originally posted by badmoon
Today the American people finally win.

This is yet another step toward Statism. The American people lose the biggest and most important thing they have had, liberty. The tenth amendment is hanging by a thread.

The principle of marxist collectivism is further enhanced and entrenched.

The passage may be threatened by lawsuits fast tracked to the Supreme Court by State Attorney Generals.

Originally posted by normbenign
It has a host of provisions which lead inevitably to a single payer system. Its design is to kill off what is left of the private sector in health care.

A host of provisions such as?

Originally posted by badmoon
Again, it is realized. Reform is needed. It is best that we all hope that this package works, because to hope that it fails is hoping that this country suffers.

Hoping for the best, when logical reality is likely the worst, is pure folly.

Originally posted by badmoon
If that is true we can all rejoice. I see absolutely no reason to continue to support companies that prosper by abusing the sick by sending them to the curb. Tell me please how health insurance companies at all embellish people or the country. They offer no product, rather they are thieves amd pimps that only offer any fondness when they can prosper from you.

You clearly don't understand insurance. Most Americans are covered well by insurance companies.

Not only that, these companies provide employment for tens of thousands of working Americans.

A great many of the problems with insurance and the health care system in general are the intrusions of government imposed on the system already.

You and others have swerved away from the original question of what Federal government program has ever delivered on its promise. The promises of Obamacare are as cruel as all the promises of Statist collectivists in the past. They are never the truth.

We are probably at a tipping point where Americans are divided into beneficiaries or payors. When there are more beneficiaries than those who pay the bills there will be little chance of America becoming anything but a third world Socialist state.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
A host of provisions such as?

Requiring the purchase of insurance. Fines for companies which drop health care. Requiring insurers to cover pre existing conditions.

If the fine is $1000, and the coverage is $2000, why would anyone buy insurance? Wait until you are sick and then pay the higher amount. Classical adverse selection or moral risk.

Originally posted by normbenign
It has a host of provisions which lead inevitably to a single payer system. Its design is to kill off what is left of the private sector in health care.

A host of provisions such as?

Originally posted by normbenign
Requiring the purchase of insurance. Fines for companies which drop health care. Requiring insurers to cover pre existing conditions.

If the fine is $1000, and the coverage is $2000, why would anyone buy insurance? Wait until you are sick and then pay the higher amount. Classical adverse selection or moral risk.

OK, so you're saying the Republican's idea for an individual mandate to purchase health insurance is the road to single payer?

Norm, you are right on all counts.
The problem is, most people knew it, and the government by the people for the people now does not exsist.
One Nation, under GOD with Liberty and justice for all........ and they put the vote on the table on the day of the lord.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you God?

Freedom

Originally posted by normbenign
First the argued notion that high taxes, and an increasing deficit are mutually exclusive is pure folly.

All taxation is harmful to economic activity. The higher the taxation, the greater the harm. As tax rates grow, receipts tend to diminish, economic activity slows down, and deficits grow.

Sustainable doesn't equal best possible. Universal is a cruel lie. Rationing is a reality.

All nonsense, but believed in like some twisted religion by right wing nuts. Keep repeating your loony shibboleths over and over again; maybe you'll convince yourself.