@kevcvs57 said"Not only will there be no forced vaccinations, but those who choose to opt-out won't face any penalties at all."
Yeah I get that but kids spreading the thing to parents and worse grandparents and out into the wider community. Schools are like massive Petri dishes for most communicable disease. It’s not their fault but if I wanted to curb the spread of something and I could only shut one thing it would be schools.
Horsefacequntnzprimeminister
1 edit
@no1marauder saidYou are being silly. People have the right to isolate themselves from others if they are afraid of a disease. The public health experts who have toiled in the field for decades lied to us all. You just want to ignore that as if it never happened. You are also putting trust into big pharma and they don't deserve trust.
I've wasted enough time with uneducated loonies who have talked themselves into believing that know more about diseases, vaccines and pandemics then public health experts who have toiled in the field for decades.
I also have no intention of further ridiculing the idiotic idea that individuals have some sort of "right" to spread deadly, contagious diseases to others.
So we really have nothing to discuss on these matters.
https://rumble.com/v1xsyuq-big-pharma-knowingly-sold-hiv-infected-products-in-asia-and-latin-america.html
https://rumble.com/v1xsx5c-proof-pro-lockdown-people-are-mental.html
https://reclaimthenet.org/pfizer-ceo-misleading-vaccine-statements-regulator/
1 edit
@no1marauder saidStop calling people anti-vaxxer. We have all been vaccinated at some point in our lives. You are spreading misinformation from big pharma. You have always done that through the entire pandemic and you were proven wrong multiple times because you were such a blind follower.
I don't regard your or any other anti-vaxxer's ravings to be worth responding to.
https://rumble.com/v1xsziw-lying-doctor-smears-unvaxxed-and-twitter-pounces.html
Furthermore, anybody who refuses any vaccine since 1986 is a sensible person that should NEVER be labeled anti-vaxx. You are trying to smear people for not trusting big pharma and big pharma has done evil things in the past like knowingly spreading HIV. We should all have the right to sue big pharma for vaccine damage to people's health.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12708236/
Now the pro lockdown crowd is against them in China. Are you too?
https://rumble.com/v1xt9o6-liberal-hypocrites-now-oppose-lockdowns-in-china.html
2 edits
@no1marauder
They all lied to you.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-emailed-friend-saying-masks-ineffective-pushed-mandates-anyway-missouri-ag
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/lies-secrecy-cdc-fda-covid-vaccines-cola/
https://en-volve.com/2022/11/29/it-works-vitamin-d-treatment-for-c-19-completely-vindicated-by-new-scientific-study/
3 edits
@no1marauder saidFirst of all, schools were open in the Fall of 2020 in many states, in some areas of all states and in most countries, so it's not like we have to guess about some catastrophic hypothetical. In Europe, schools were open in the Fall and never shut, even when they did close the bars and whatnot.
You're not talking just about "this point"; you're ridiculously asserting that schools should have remained open when COVID was still rampant and there was no vaccine yet available.
I know it was a bit inconvenient to be deprived of your babysitters for a while, but you haven't made a whiff of an argument why they would have been worth the thousands or tens of thousand ...[text shortened]... the increase in hospitalizations and cases leaving all schools open in Fall 2020 would have caused.
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/13/934153674/lessons-from-europe-where-cases-are-rising-but-schools-are-open
Every school in my area was open from the start of the year and the camps were open all summer from June 29, which is the day Cuomo allowed it. Somehow the school busses managed to drive around the dead bodies littering the streets.
On a fundamental level, though, open schools is a necessary part of a functioning society. You could cut pediatric flu deaths to almost zero every year by never opening schools again. To try to make a calculation every day as to whether we shut down the most important elements of society to save x theoretical unidentified lives is an extremely dangerous game with no limiting principle. You say there was no vaccine. But in September 2020, we didn't really know if we'd ever have a vaccine. We didn't know whether Fall/Winter 2020 would be different than Fall/Winter 2021 (and in fact, it really wasn't much different).
Here's the thing: You love to to frame the debate as "nobody has the right to spread a disease." Fine. Granted. But that misses the issue of lockdowns. Nobody is intentionally spreading a disease. They're behaving normally and any spread is incident to their normal behavior. But even so, a restriction might make sense if the person has covid. A law that says that someone who is sick must not go to a ballgame or a bar? Okay. Maybe. Possibly. But to tell healthy people that they're not allowed to interact normally because they might be carrying a virus that they don't know about? Again, no limiting principle.
1 edit
@sh76 said"Here's the thing: You love to to frame the debate as "nobody has the right to spread a disease."
First of all, schools were open in the Fall of 2020 in many states, in some areas of all states and in most countries, so it's not like we have to guess about some catastrophic hypothetical. In Europe, schools were open in the Fall and never shut, even when they did close the bars and whatnot.
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/13/934153674/lessons-from-europe-where-cases-are-rising ...[text shortened]... lly because they might be carrying a virus that they don't know about? Again, no limiting principle.
That was No1's strawman from the start, no one was advocating for this, if a person knowingly infected another that would be a form of assault. No1 must have recently watched 'Minority Report' he sees himself as some kind of pre-crime detective Tom Cruise character locking people up for what they might do. You need to prove objective threat and since biden and the NZ prime minister caught it when everyone around them was taking all precautions including taking the juice, the ridiculous rag on their face and the stupid elbow bumping it shows how effective these controls were.
No1 says he's tired of ridiculing those that think they have a right to knowingly infect others with a potentially fatal disease, while himself being an advocate for the potentially fatal juice. He's arguing with fictional characters inhabiting his own mind, no wonder he becomes tired.
@wajoma saidThis is where your bat💩crazy anti vax crap ends up
"Here's the thing: You love to to frame the debate as "nobody has the right to spread a disease."
That was No1's strawman from the start, no one was advocating for this, if a person knowingly infected another that would be a form of assault. No1 must have recently watched 'Minority Report' he sees himself as some kind of pre-crime detective Tom Cruise character lock ...[text shortened]... juice. He's arguing with fictional characters inhabiting his own mind, no wonder he becomes tired.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/30/new-zealand-parents-refuse-use-of-vaccinated-blood-in-life-saving-surgery-on-baby?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
1 edit
@sh76 saidNo, we don't have to guess about a "hypothetical catastrophe"; from September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020 (the time period you feel children should have been stuffed into crowded indoor venues to then have contact with the significant majority of adults), 180,000 Americans died of COVID. Surely the largely partisan wish to act like things were "normal" in the face of the worst public health crisis in over a century contributed to that death toll and overall suffering - States with governors like DeSantis and Noem were hit the hardest after the initial wave.
First of all, schools were open in the Fall of 2020 in many states, in some areas of all states and in most countries, so it's not like we have to guess about some catastrophic hypothetical. In Europe, schools were open in the Fall and never shut, even when they did close the bars and whatnot.
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/13/934153674/lessons-from-europe-where-cases-are-rising ...[text shortened]... lly because they might be carrying a virus that they don't know about? Again, no limiting principle.
In crisis, well ordered societies often restrict normal activities which might endanger others under extraordinary circumstances. Normally you can keep the lights on in your apartment for as long as you like, but if your nation is at war with the possibility of being hit by air strikes, the government might impose a 9 o'clock "lights out" policy. And those who act "normally" by ignoring such a restriction and thus endanger others are considered morally blame worthy and justly subject to punishment.
Given the extent of the public health crisis, physically closing schools and requiring virtual learning was surely reasonable; many businesses and government agencies turned to analogous measures.
@no1marauder saidYou mentioned Florida but there were many other states that opened schools and did much better. Is there a correlative study that compares this data county by county?
No, we don't have to guess about a "hypothetical catastrophe"; from September 1, 2020 to December 31, 2020 (the time period you feel children should have been stuffed into crowded indoor venues to then have contact with the significant majority of adults), 180,000 Americans died of COVID. Surely the largely partisan wish to act like things were "normal" in the face of the ...[text shortened]... earning was surely reasonable; many businesses and government agencies turned to analogous measures.
The problem with Florida wasn't schools. The problem with Florida was that Ron forced private companies to tear up masking and distancing guidelines, and he yelled at kids to remove their masks.
Other states that did things normally? AFAIK other states who opened up in person schools with masking and distancing and kept their government hands out of private business did not do worse than states that shuttered schools the whole semester.
@kevcvs57 saidGo away kev, this is over your head. I've said repeatedly if you want to take the juice take as many shots as you like, hardly what could be called anti-vax. I'm not going to waste time on the Guardian link, been bitten too many times with that left wing, pro-goobermint lying propaganda piece of sheet. And what really sealed it was the way they, and other so called media reported the protests. I was involved in those, there were good ordinary people involved in those, people that had never been involved or interested in politics, people that had never considered the possibility of having to make a stand, people that had been bullied, people that had taken the juice and wore masks but were worried about the massive and brutal increase in state force.
This is where your bat💩crazy anti vax crap ends up
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/30/new-zealand-parents-refuse-use-of-vaccinated-blood-in-life-saving-surgery-on-baby?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Then there was the way the Guardian and others reported them.
Never has trust in MSM and goobermint been so low, it was a long time coming, it was long overdue.
2 edits
@wildgrass saidCouple of studies:
You mentioned Florida but there were many other states that opened schools and did much better. Is there a correlative study that compares this data county by county?
The problem with Florida wasn't schools. The problem with Florida was that Ron forced private companies to tear up masking and distancing guidelines, and he yelled at kids to remove their masks.
Other st ...[text shortened]... ands out of private business did not do worse than states that shuttered schools the whole semester.
"Countries that closed schools faster, especially before the detection of any confirmed case or death, had fewer COVID-19 cases or deaths per million of the population on total days of involvement. It can be concluded that rapid prevention policies are the main determinants of the countries' success."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352914821002720
"In this US population–based time series analysis conducted between March 9, 2020, and May 7, 2020, school closure was associated with a significant decline in both incidence of COVID-19 (adjusted relative change per week, −62% ) and mortality (adjusted relative change per week, −58% ). In a model derived from this analysis, it was estimated that closing schools when the cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was in the lowest quartile compared with the highest quartile was associated with 128.7 fewer cases per 100 000 population over 26 days and with 1.5 fewer deaths per 100 000 population over 16 days."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7391181/
BTW, sh76 not only wanted in-school learning to be adopted in toto but also opposed any mask mandates on kids in the schools (he referred to it as "torture" ). But:
"Today, CDC released three studies in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) that highlight the importance of using layered prevention strategies including universal masking to stop the spread and minimize disruptions to school operations for safe in-person education. These studies found that school districts without a universal masking policy in place were more likely to have COVID-19 outbreaks. Nationwide, counties without masking requirements saw the number of pediatric COVID-19 cases increase nearly twice as quickly during this same period."
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0924-school-masking.html
Another:
" Analyzing how an increase of COVID-19 cases is related to the timing of opening K–12 schools in the United States, we find that counties that opened K–12 schools with in-person learning experienced an increase in the growth rate of cases by 5 percentage points on average, controlling for a variety of policies, past infection rates, and other factors. This association of K–12 school visits with case growth is stronger when mask wearing is not mandated for staff at school."
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2103420118
1 edit
@no1marauder saidA.K.A how to lie with statistics.
Couple of studies:
"Countries that closed schools faster, especially before the detection of any confirmed case or death, had fewer COVID-19 cases or deaths per million of the population on total days of involvement. It can be concluded that rapid prevention policies are the main determinants of the countries' success."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/ ...[text shortened]... y during this same period."[/b]
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0924-school-masking.html
A lesson for No1, correlation does not equal causation.
Countries that adopted mask mandates soon after saw increases in covid cases. From this we can deduce masks increase the chances of contracting the wuflu
@no1marauder
While the whole world went mad, closing schools, issuing mask orders and mandatory lockdowns, Sweden refused to listen to Bill Gates and the World Economic Forum and kept their society open. Fast forward to the end of 2022 and the data shows that Sweden made the right call.
https://newspunch.com/sweden-refused-lockdowns-kept-schools-open-and-was-rewarded-with-lowest-excess-mortality-in-the-world/
1 edit
@metal-brain saidI don't know where your crank site got his numbers from, but:
@no1marauder
While the whole world went mad, closing schools, issuing mask orders and mandatory lockdowns, Sweden refused to listen to Bill Gates and the World Economic Forum and kept their society open. Fast forward to the end of 2022 and the data shows that Sweden made the right call.
https://newspunch.com/sweden-refused-lockdowns-kept-schools-open-and-was-rewarded-with-lowest-excess-mortality-in-the-world/
"Sweden has administered at least 22,674,504 doses of COVID vaccines so far. Assuming every person needs 2 doses, that’s enough to have vaccinated about 110.2% of the country’s population."
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/sweden/
Before getting its people vaccinated: "During the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland recorded their highest monthly excess and all-cause mortality levels since the 1918 influenza pandemic, emphasizing the historical dimension of the ongoing pandemic.." https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.12.21261825v1