1. Zugzwang
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    01 Jan '21 20:331 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/01/brexit-bonfire-national-illusions-labour-alternative-future

    "The one good thing to come out of Brexit: a bonfire of national illusions"

    "hey have done it. The right wing of the Conservative party has won a historic victory. The UK will be a sovereign “third country”, with a limited trade deal with the EU. The UK, rightwingers believe, has been reconciled to its true history as a nation of offshore islanders.

    But they have also failed, according to their own terms. Theresa May’s “red, white and blue” Brexit is long dead, and a bad deal turned out to be better than no deal. The EU will not be supplanted by a great new Europe where British trade flows unimpeded; there are now frictions and barriers, not least in services. Any serious deregulatory move by the UK will be met with EU retaliation.

    In short, the UK has repatriated economic sovereignty and discovered that, far from allowing it to humble the EU, it has harmed itself. Leaders who supposedly stood up for the greatness of the renewed British nation have been revealed as “champions of free trade” who don’t understand the modern economy – and as boastful flag-waving nationalists who don’t realise that great British rulers once looked down on such tinpot antics.

    As things now stand, Brexit is a pointless gesture, a politics of headlines in which sovereignty is performed by bleating world-beating absurdities. Remarkably, four years on from the referendum, it is still a promise without a plan. We have broken out of one regime of international relationships into a holding position – worse than what came before, but with the possibility of redemption or damnation, or, more likely, stagnation."

    "For in its own way, Brexit has forced some essential understanding of Britain’s place in the world.
    It is no longer even potentially “top nation”. It will not escape the orbit of Europe – it never did, even at the height of its power. It must imitate far more than it innovates. Understanding these truths is crucial to a genuine national reconstruction, which should aim to create a real better country, not to fake being the best."
  2. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    01 Jan '21 22:09
    Back in June 2012, John Baron MP said, "There is a consistent majority in this country who believe that the European Union meddles too much in our everyday lives."

    Today we have stepped away from the meddling. It is a good day. A little scary, yes, but a good day nevertheless.
  3. Subscriberdivegeester
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    01 Jan '21 22:321 edit
    See my post in Shav’s thread.

    The bitter tears of the Remain media overflowing into the gutters of social media as the UK... just carries on.


    Edit; lol the guardian editor is really pissed off πŸ˜‚
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    01 Jan '21 23:51
    @Duchess64
    HEY have done it? I guess the horses will like itπŸ™‚
  5. Zugzwang
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    02 Jan '21 00:52
    @divegeester said
    See my post in Shav’s thread.

    The bitter tears of the Remain media overflowing into the gutters of social media as the UK... just carries on.


    Edit; lol the guardian editor is really pissed off πŸ˜‚
    The article was written by David Edgerton, a historian who's not employed by 'The Guardian'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Edgerton_(historian)

    "He has written for such publications as Prospect, the London Review of Books,
    Nature, Times Higher Education Supplement, and The Guardian ..."
  6. Subscriberdivegeester
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    02 Jan '21 01:04
    @duchess64 said
    The article was written by David Edgerton, a historian who's not employed by 'The Guardian'.
    So he did it for free then and the Guardian’s editor didn’t sign it off?
  7. Zugzwang
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    02 Jan '21 01:12
    @divegeester said
    So he did it for free then and the Guardian’s editor didn’t sign it off?
    David Edgerton presumably was paid to write the article.
    He was NOT paid because he wrote exactly what someone else told him to write in it.
    No self-respecting academic would accept money for putting his or her name on
    an article written completely by someone else.

    Divegeester seems ignorant of the fact that 'The Guardian' employs writers who
    have major disagreements with each other. One (part-time?) writer is half-Palestinian
    and much more critical of Israel than several moderately pro-Israeli columnists
    (who mostly seem Jewish) employed by 'The Guardian'.
  8. Zugzwang
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    02 Jan '21 03:13
    @sonhouse said
    @Duchess64
    HEY have done it? I guess the horses will like itπŸ™‚
    Intelligence test:
    Guess the missing letter before 'hey'.
  9. Subscribershavixmir
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    02 Jan '21 05:00
    @divegeester said
    See my post in Shav’s thread.

    The bitter tears of the Remain media overflowing into the gutters of social media as the UK... just carries on.


    Edit; lol the guardian editor is really pissed off πŸ˜‚
    As I stated in my thread: you obviously don’t comprehend what this deal is that’s been signed up to.

    All EU standards have to be complied with.

    Control over UK borders was already a UK thing.
    Fishing rights.. besides the tories caving in, it’s a moot 0,1% of the economy issue.
    And they’ve managed to avoid having to declare off-shore financial storage (and guess who’s gonna benefit from that?).

    So, basically the only thing that’s going to change is the bureacracy for companies to get and bring goods over thw borders and the UK having zero say in EU matters.

    Do the maths.
  10. Subscribershavixmir
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    02 Jan '21 05:02
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    Back in June 2012, John Baron MP said, "There is a consistent majority in this country who believe that the European Union meddles too much in our everyday lives."

    Today we have stepped away from the meddling. It is a good day. A little scary, yes, but a good day nevertheless.
    The UK didn’t step away from “the meddling”.

    You don’t understand the deal.
    Get someone to explain it to you.
  11. Subscriberdivegeester
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    02 Jan '21 07:40
    @duchess64 said
    David Edgerton presumably was paid to write the article.
    Then he was “employed” to do so and the Guardian editor signed off the article.
  12. Subscriberdivegeester
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    02 Jan '21 07:421 edit
    @shavixmir said
    As I stated in my thread: you obviously don’t comprehend what this deal is that’s been signed up to.

    All EU standards have to be complied with.

    Control over UK borders was already a UK thing.
    Fishing rights.. besides the tories caving in, it’s a moot 0,1% of the economy issue.
    And they’ve managed to avoid having to declare off-shore financial storage (and guess who’ ...[text shortened]... s to get and bring goods over thw borders and the UK having zero say in EU matters.

    Do the maths.
    OK.

    Still not starving.
  13. Subscribermoonbus
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    02 Jan '21 08:082 edits
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    Back in June 2012, John Baron MP said, "There is a consistent majority in this country who believe that the European Union meddles too much in our everyday lives."

    Today we have stepped away from the meddling. It is a good day. A little scary, yes, but a good day nevertheless.
    No, you haven't. If you still want to sell your goods and services to EU countries, you have to abide by THEIR rules and safety/environmental/transport regulations. The target country's rules apply, not the supplier's. The big difference is that, before, you had a vote in what those rules would be, and now you don't.
  14. Zugzwang
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    02 Jan '21 08:32
    @divegeester said
    Then he was “employed” to do so and the Guardian editor signed off the article.
    Divegeester fail to comprehend (at best) or is dishonest about the obvious major
    distinction between a staff writer employed by a newspaper and a guest writer (gig worker).

    If I am paid by, say, ten different publications to write pieces for them in one year,
    I do NOT list them as my 'employers' on my tax form.

    A waitress may be paid (in tips) by thousands of customers in a year.
    Does Divegeester fantasize that she had thousands of employers that year?
  15. Subscriberdivegeester
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    02 Jan '21 09:191 edit
    @duchess64 said
    A waitress may be paid (in tips) by thousands of customers in a year.
    Comparing your predictable Guardian editorial with a waitress serving and wiping tables for tips is silly, but I’ll settle.
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