Trump Says He Will Not Allow Israel to Annex West Bank

@Earl-of-Trumps said
thegrayzone and rumble aren't what I call reliable sources

Rumble is a video platform and all of the videos I posted from Rumble are also on youtube so that is just stupid. I could post all of those same videos on youtube, but youtube is owned by google which is a deep state corporation.

https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-cia-and-nsa-research-grants-for-mass-surveillance

As for the Gray Zone I think you are wrong. The Gray Zone is highly reliable.
You just wish they were wrong like the democrats wish Bobby Kennedy was wrong. Do you really want to be like Suzianne? Everything she wishes is wrong is a lie without evidence. Is that the road you want to go down?

@Metal-Brain said
Rumble is a video platform and all of the videos I posted from Rumble are also on youtube so that is just stupid. I could post all of those same videos on youtube, but youtube is owned by google which is a deep state corporation.

https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-cia-and-nsa-research-grants-for-mass-surveillance

As for the Gray Zone I think ...[text shortened]... nne? Everything she wishes is wrong is a lie without evidence. Is that the road you want to go down?

Trump and his people have not mentioned this. I suggest there is a reason.

@Earl-of-Trumps said
Trump and his people have not mentioned this. I suggest there is a reason.

Mentioned what?

@no1marauder said
Israeli settlers in the West Bank get full voting rights, don't they? So the distinction is based on ethnic/religious grounds not where people live.

The settlers are full Israeli citizens. All of them (or their parents) came from Israel-proper when they were already citizens. Arab-Israeli citizens also get full voting rights.

Palestinians in Jenin or Ramallah aren't Israeli citizens (and probably don't want to be). The settlers vote because of the citizenship they hold, not based on the geographical area in which they live. If a non-Israeli-citizen would move to Gilo or Ramat Shlomo or Neve Daniel, he also wouldn't inherently have voting rights, just like American expats in Canada can vote, while non-Americans in Chicago can't.

By the same token, if some Jewish neighborhood somehow sprung up in Jenin of non-Israeli Jews, they would not have voting rights (of course, they'd also be wholesale slaughtered, so voting wouldn't be their biggest problem).

The only distinction based on ethnic/religious grounds is the law of return that allows non-Israeli Jews automatic path to citizenship and doesn't do the same for non-Jews. Yeah, Israel was formed as a haven for Jews who may need sanctuary from anti-Semitic populaces around the world. Other threatened populaces like the Uygurs, Kurds, Yazidis and Rohingya might consider the same if they can swing it.

@sh76 said
The settlers are full Israeli citizens. All of them (or their parents) came from Israel-proper when they were already citizens. Arab-Israeli citizens also get full voting rights.

Palestinians in Jenin or Ramallah aren't Israeli citizens (and probably don't want to be). The settlers vote because of the citizenship they hold, not based on the geographical area in which they li ...[text shortened]... populaces like the Uygurs, Kurds, Yazidis and Rohingya might consider the same if they can swing it.

That's an amusing argument. All Jews are entitled to Israeli citizenship so if Palestinians in annexed areas aren't given full rights that's OK because they, unlike any Jew, aren't citizens but that has nothing to do with anything ethnic/religious distinction!

Riiiiight.

Is that how it works in the illegally annexed areas of East Jerusalem?

@no1marauder said
That's an amusing argument. All Jews are entitled to Israeli citizenship so if Palestinians in annexed areas aren't given full rights that's OK because they, unlike any Jew, aren't citizens but that has nothing to do with anything ethnic/religious distinction!

Riiiiight.

Is that how it works in the illegally annexed areas of East Jerusalem?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

East Jerusalem are full citizens with full voting rights.

Obviously, if Israel would annex Jenin, they'd have to allow citizenship for Jenin Palestinians. Whether Israel should annex Jenin and Ramallah is a different question. But until they do, those people are not Israeli citizens.

The settlers are all pre-existing Israeli citizens. Obviously, they don't get stripped of citizenship or voting rights because they move over the green line. They wouldn't get stripped of citizenship or voting rights either if they moved to London or Los Angeles.

@sh76 said
I'm not sure I understand the question.

East Jerusalem are full citizens with full voting rights.

Obviously, if Israel would annex Jenin, they'd have to allow citizenship for Jenin Palestinians. Whether Israel should annex Jenin and Ramallah is a different question. But until they do, those people are not Israeli citizens.

The settlers are all pre-existing Israeli citi ...[text shortened]... wouldn't get stripped of citizenship or voting rights either if they moved to London or Los Angeles.

This article says you're wrong about East Jerusalem. https://www.btselem.org/publications/202210_not_a_vibrant_democracy_this_is_apartheid

@no1marauder said
This article says you're wrong about East Jerusalem. https://www.btselem.org/publications/202210_not_a_vibrant_democracy_this_is_apartheid

I stand corrected. They gave them the right to become citizens, but it doesn't happen automatically. And it does involve navigating some bureaucracy.

Of course, there's also plenty of bureaucracy involved when non-Israeli Jews seek to become citizens. My neighbor recently moved to Israel and it's been close to a year and truckloads of documents needed, and the process is still not finished. He'll finish the process eventually, though, because he's motivated to do so.

I don't doubt that the process is harder for East Jerusalem Palestinians.

Of course, there are many Israeli Arabs throughout the country, and they generally have full citizenship.

@sh76 said
I stand corrected. They gave them the right to become citizens, but it doesn't happen automatically. And it does involve navigating some bureaucracy.

Of course, there's also plenty of bureaucracy involved when non-Israeli Jews seek to become citizens. My neighbor recently moved to Israel and it's been close to a year and truckloads of documents needed, and the process is stil ...[text shortened]... urse, there are many Israeli Arabs throughout the country, and they generally have full citizenship.

If Netanyahu annexes the West Bank, you don't really expect him to give full citizenship to non-Jews who live there, do you?

For the record, only about 5% of Arabs living in East Jerusalem are Israeli citizens.https://www.jerusalemstory.com/en/article/who-represents-palestinians-jerusalem

@no1marauder said
If Netanyahu annexes the West Bank, you don't really expect him to give full citizenship to non-Jews who live there, do you?

For the record, only about 5% of Arabs living in East Jerusalem are Israeli citizens.https://www.jerusalemstory.com/en/article/who-represents-palestinians-jerusalem

===If Netanyahu annexes the West Bank, you don't really expect him to give full citizenship to non-Jews who live there, do you?===

Probably not.

I'm disheartened and upset about the way Netanyahu has handled the whole situation. Totally destroying Hamas is impossible, and trying it not worth giving up the moral high ground as Israel has done.

I'm still sure that much of the Israel-hate that goes on is based on good ol' fashioned anti-Semitism, but Israel has also lost the sympathy of many marginal people though the intensity and harshness of its operation, which could have been almost as effective without being as brutal.

I can only hope that the next Israeli government, whenever it arrives, is more serious about peace and that the Palestinians are capable of making peace, Hamas notwithstanding.

I'm less and less optimistic about it, but one can still hope...

@sh76 said

I'm disheartened and upset about the way Netanyahu has handled the whole situation. Totally destroying Hamas is impossible, and trying it not worth giving up the moral high ground as Israel has done.

A clean war with Hamas is not possible. Hamas has broken every guideline suggested by the Geneva Convention. They have:
- attacked raped and murdered civilians
- taken hostages and abused them
- placed military hardware and weapons in hospitals schools and mosques
- put children in the line of fire
- put weapons in the hands of minors

To fight such an enemy you have to use brutal tactics otherwise you have lost the war.

@Metal-Brain said
Mentioned what?

Trump never mentioned that Kirk was shot at close range.
is it because he never read your link? send it to Bondi

@Rajk999 said
A clean war with Hamas is not possible. Hamas has broken every guideline suggested by the Geneva Convention. They have:
- attacked raped and murdered civilians
- taken hostages and abused them
- placed military hardware and weapons in hospitals schools and mosques
- put children in the line of fire
- put weapons in the hands of minors

To fight such an enemy you have to use brutal tactics otherwise you have lost the war.

I agree in theory, but if the brutal tactics are ineffective and they result in too many civilian deaths, they're counterproductive.

@sh76 said
I agree in theory, but if the brutal tactics are ineffective and they result in too many civilian deaths, they're counterproductive.

The laws of war apply to both sides and one sides' violation of them does not legally justify the others.

That would be so even if Israel's many crimes weren't "counterproductive" in a PR sense.

@no1marauder said
The laws of war apply to both sides and one sides' violation of them does not legally justify the others.

That would be so even if Israel's many crimes weren't "counterproductive" in a PR sense.

Yeah and the foolish side would be legally dead right. In case you did not figure out, a man fighting for his very existance care little about PR, and the opinion of sheep.