13 Jan 16
I was perusing the link
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/13/1469209/-BNR-Sanders-Soars-In-A-Plethora-Of-New-Polling-amp-Bernie-s-Ad-Buys-Are-Working
when I came across a picture a little ways down the page. It shows a US demonstrator holding a sign that says
SINGLE PAYER
FRANCE HAS IT.
CANADA HAS IT.
TAIWAN HAS IT.
WE WANT IT.
For some reason this struck me viscerally. This is one of the most pressing issues of our time, inextricably intertwined with the issue of an inexorably encroaching US oligarchy. We've been told time and again over the decades by our masters, both Republican and Democrat, that we are not allowed to have guaranteed, universal health care.
Spain has it. Germany has it. Australia has it. Finland has it. Lithuania has it. Japan has it...
Originally posted by SoothfastThere's nothing stopping all those that 'want it' from forming and funding their own UHC organization. Probably the aspect that is not attractive to you about this scenario is that you don't get to force your 'ideal' on those that don't believe in it.
I was perusing the link
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/13/1469209/-BNR-Sanders-Soars-In-A-Plethora-Of-New-Polling-amp-Bernie-s-Ad-Buys-Are-Working
when I came across a picture a little ways down the page. It shows a US demonstrator holding a sign that says
[b]SINGLE PAYER
FRANCE HAS IT.
CANADA HAS IT.
TAIWAN HAS IT.
[i]WE WAN ...[text shortened]... has it. Germany has it. Australia has it. Finland has it. Lithuania has it. Japan has it...
I think what you're angling at, that your agenda lurking just below the surface of your whining is, is you want it but want someone else to pay for it.
There are only 3 ways for the goobermint to provide this.
1/ Raise taxes
2/ Print more money
3/ Borrow more money
13 Jan 16
Originally posted by WajomaPeople getting together and voluntarily paying for their health care collectively is called "health insurance."
There's nothing stopping all those that 'want it' from forming and funding their own UHC organization. Probably the aspect that is not attractive to you about this scenario is that you don't get to force your 'ideal' on those that don't believe in it.
I think what you're angling at, that your agenda lurking just below the surface of your whining is, is y ...[text shortened]... for the goobermint to provide this.
1/ Raise taxes
2/ Print more money
3/ Borrow more money
People who "don't believe" in cheaper, higher quality health care are either sadists, masochists, or both.
Originally posted by WajomaNo, I want to cut out the greedy middlemen that are getting fat off the misery of the sick and injured. Medical procedures cost much more in the US than they cost in other countries (pick one - Belgium) because of all the non-medical parties that come to suck on the system's teat: insurance companies and their stockholders, pharmaceutical executives demanding their bonuses, lawyers, administrators, fraudsters, and so on. A single-payer system (Medicare for all) cuts many of them out of the loop, while long-overdue regulation of Big Pharma, the insurance industry extortionists, and the practice of fraudulent overcharging for simple services would finish the job.
I think what you're angling at, that your agenda lurking just below the surface of your whining is, is you want it but want someone else to pay for it.
A family paying $6000 premiums a year for a private insurance plan that has some ridiculous $2000 deductible and only covers 75% of a $50,000 operation can trade it all in for guaranteed Medicare with a modestly increased payroll deduction (and a hell of a lot of peace of mind to boot). Meanwhile the Koch brothers would still be free to "opt out" and buy private insurance if they so desire. Take a poll and find out how many senior citizens would rather opt out of their Medicare and buy private insurance. No one touches their Medicare, because they like their Medicare and want to keep it.
Anyone with eyes to see and an objective mindset can compare statistics between countries and see that the US private insurance "system" is a fiscal and humanitarian disaster with higher costs and lower returns.
13 Jan 16
Originally posted by SoothfastCorporate America, who owns and operates most of our lawmakers has decided it's far more profitable to use the "pay or die" system. America is a country of the corporations, for the corporations, and by the corporations. "The People" are just a resource, and it does not matter what they want.
I was perusing the link
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/13/1469209/-BNR-Sanders-Soars-In-A-Plethora-Of-New-Polling-amp-Bernie-s-Ad-Buys-Are-Working
when I came across a picture a little ways down the page. It shows a US demonstrator holding a sign that says
[b]SINGLE PAYER
FRANCE HAS IT.
CANADA HAS IT.
TAIWAN HAS IT.
[i]WE WAN ...[text shortened]... has it. Germany has it. Australia has it. Finland has it. Lithuania has it. Japan has it...
13 Jan 16
Originally posted by SoothfastI'm with you on the de-regulation and a separation of the state and the medical industry.
No, I want to cut out the greedy middlemen that are getting fat off the misery of the sick and injured. Medical procedures cost much more in the US than they cost in other countries (pick one - Belgium) because of all the non-medical parties that come to suck on the system's teat: insurance companies and their stockholders, pharmaceutical executives dema ...[text shortened]... insurance. No one touches their Medicare, because they like their Medicare and want to keep it.
That's the biggest hurdle you face when it comes to setting up your voluntary UHC system.
Much cheaper and faster to visit the vet who isn't encumbered by numerous guvamint buratcracies.
13 Jan 16
Originally posted by bill718Another reason why health care expenditures are so high in the US is that someone with no insurance, or a monstrous deductible, will opt to "tough it out" when they get sick for fear of visiting financial ruin upon themselves. Then it turns out they have a problem that could have been fixed for $100 if they had gone to the doctor earlier, only now it will cost $25,000 and/or is terminal.
Corporate America, who owns and operates most of our lawmakers has decided it's far more profitable to use the "pay or die" system. America is a country of the corporations, for the corporations, and by the corporations. "The People" are just a resource, and it does not matter what they want.
13 Jan 16
Originally posted by WajomaI don't know what the hell you're blithering about, but it's clear that you either didn't read what I said or it went right over your iron-plated head.
I'm with you on the de-regulation and a separation of the state and the medical industry.
That's the biggest hurdle you face when it comes to setting up your voluntary UHC system.
Much cheaper and faster to visit the vet who isn't encumbered by numerous guvamint buratcracies.
13 Jan 16
Originally posted by SoothfastI'm sure you wouldn't want to force your 'voluntary UHC scheme' on unwilling citizens.
I don't know what the hell you're blithering about, but it's clear that you either didn't read what I said or it went right over your iron-plated head.
So I was just pointing out the major hurdle you're going to face in setting up your 'voluntary UHC scheme' is goobermint regulation.
The biggest baddest corporation of them all, the state, doesn't like competition.
I wish you luck with your mission, and it is indeed commendable that in this age you are an advocate for voluntary society.
13 Jan 16
Originally posted by WajomaI'm not going to get into it with your lizard id fantasies about the rugged individual being an island unto himself, free from all social responsibilities.
I'm sure you wouldn't want to force your 'voluntary UHC scheme' on unwilling citizens.
So I was just pointing out the major hurdle you're going to face in setting up your 'voluntary UHC scheme' is goobermint regulation.
The biggest baddest corporation of them all, the state, doesn't like competition.
I wish you luck with your mission, and it is indeed commendable that in this age you are an advocate for voluntary society.
Originally posted by WajomaYou just have a bizarre attitude concerning the money in your pocket. Money that wouldn't exist without a society. Money that comes into your pocket, goes out, and comes in again. This thread wasn't really set up to provide blinkered foreign Randians a platform to come tell Americans how they should get their medical care. But hey, fire away, it is a "debate forum" after all...
Congrats, we haven't heard that tired, droll, clichéd strawman in months.