@quackquack saidMike Yeaden the former head of Pfizer Respiratory research doesn't and he isn't alone. It's just the the dissenting voices don't get a look in.
Epidemiologist who are clearly the expert in the field of pandemics recommend the vaccine. Its widely available, it has been given safely to 100s of millions of people and it is effective in the sense that it makes you far less likely to both get the disease or have death or serious symptoms. I'm not sure why you believe it wise to reject a readily available safe and eff ...[text shortened]... e is clearly distinguishable as one million Americans aren't getting sick from Mc Donalds each week.
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@quackquack saidYou don't actually know that because there isn't a reliable test for it.
There really is nothing to debate here because the consensus is pretty clear. Medical experts recommend the vaccine.
If the government wants to limit the activities of those who the refuse the vaccine for health reasons, it is certainly well within the legitimate power of government.
Even for those of you who only care about deaths (and there are huge costs other ...[text shortened]... have died. To me this outweighs any silly freedom argument a nonexpert like yourself articulates.
I invite you to turn to page 5 of this briefing document for UK Healthcare Professionals, right at the top under the red diagram.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/926410/Understanding_Cycle_Threshold__Ct__in_SARS-CoV-2_RT-PCR_.pdf
@quackquack saidOnce again, what is the probability that covid will do serious harm to a 30 year old?
I'd like to nominate your post as the dumbest one I've ever seen on this site and I'm pretty sure you don't believe it.
If something caused you lose an arm or a leg, but you lived would it not be a problem? If something gave you a brain injury or caused blindness would it not a problem? If something forced you to stay home for a week or more would it not be a problem? ...[text shortened]... e miss work, some lose their sense of taste. To think its only a problem if you die is just wrong.
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@eladar saidI don't have the data but the experts recommend that thirty year olds get vaccinated. Certainly a thirty year old could get sick or die (my admin still does not have her sense of smell back from Covid and she is a healthy 32 year old who got Covid six months ago), they could get others sick.
Once again, what is the probability that covid will do serious harm to a 30 year old?
But, once again it is laughable that you think you know more than actual experts who believe thirty year old should for their health get vaccinated.
@quackquack saidConversely, you seem to think that YOU know more than the 'experts' who think exactly opposite of YOUR experts.
I don't have the data but the experts recommend that thirty year olds get vaccinated. Certainly a thirty year old could get sick or die (my admin still does not have her sense of smell back from Covid and she is a healthy 32 year old who got Covid six months ago), they could get others sick.
But, once again it is laughable that you think you know more than actual experts who believe thirty year old should for their health get vaccinated.
Say "I love being a liberal" 3 times.
@averagejoe1 saidScience is a liberal vs. conservative issue. I know what the consensus says.
Conversely, you seem to think that YOU know more than the 'experts' who think exactly opposite of YOUR experts.
Say "I love being a liberal" 3 times.
@averagejoe1 saidYeah… all healthcare systems, virologists and the vast majority of experts say one thing, and a handful of people, most of them not experts in the field of virology say another thing.
Conversely, you seem to think that YOU know more than the 'experts' who think exactly opposite of YOUR experts.
Say "I love being a liberal" 3 times.
And you think it’s a level comparison?
🚧🚨Moronity of Gop alert!!!🚨🚧
@shavixmir saidNo, but I think QQuack does.
Yeah… all healthcare systems, virologists and the vast majority of experts say one thing, and a handful of people, most of them not experts in the field of virology say another thing.
And you think it’s a level comparison?
🚧🚨Moronity of Gop alert!!!🚨🚧
@quackquack saidYes, the govt can limit activities of people employed by the government, but I think you are referring to all citizens...? That the govt has legitimate power to tell the rest of us to vax?
If the government wants to limit the activities of those who the refuse the vaccine for health reasons, it is certainly well within the legitimate power of government.
That is a stretch. Of course, the law can be changed by our hundreds of legislators, to empower mandates or make it OK for govt to require Vax of all citizens. But it is not their power at this time.
@averagejoe1 saidThe government can make requirements for engaging in activity in public places. You need a license to drive, you must drive on the right side of the road, you need vaccines to attend school, you need ID to fly or by alcohol.
Yes, the govt can limit activities of people employed by the government, but I think you are referring to all citizens...? That the govt has legitimate power to tell the rest of us to vax?
That is a stretch. Of course, the law can be changed by our hundreds of legislators, to empower mandates or make it OK for govt to require Vax of all citizens. But it is not their power at this time.
Certainly when a million people are getting sick, they can require vaccinations to attend certain public places.
@eladar saidIts not just the harm to a healthy thirty year old that we are trying to prevent it is the harm cause by the thirty hear old to others. If I own a restaurant and I poison the food I serve, it probably won't hurt me because I don't eat the food but it does hurt someone and it is a legitimate function of government to stop injuries. Similarly, if I run around the neighborhood shooting people, the risk to me of a bullet bouncing off something and hitting me may be negligible but I am serious risk and i hurt others.
Once again, what is the probability that covid will do serious harm to a 30 year old?
A thirty year old could die or have serious harm from Covid but the risk is much more than that it is that they could easily get sick or kill others. Honestly, society doesn't and shouldn't cares about you personally but if you become like the poison in the restaurant food or the guy with guy shooting others then the certainly show restrict your activity.
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@quackquack saidYou make my point that it takes laws to effect these requirements of public interaction. It is a law to drive on the correct side of the road, it is a law to have a drivers license. There is no law now that says you must be vaccinated.
The government can make requirements for engaging in activity in public places. You need a license to drive, you must drive on the right side of the road, you need vaccines to attend school, you need ID to fly or by alcohol.
Certainly when a million people are getting sick, they can require vaccinations to attend certain public places.
So, it is your point that our legislators should make a law covering vaccinations. I understand that. We have been over this, I am in disagreement with what you think the legislator should do. So I think that pretty much wraps it up.
If they make such a law, based on your theories, then I think everyone should be vaccinated because the law says so. No problem. I do not however think that a one-person stroke of a pen as is a mandate should be allowed for such a huge affect on our 330 million citizens
So for such a law to be passed, people like you and people like me all need to be in the same room and hash it out. Frankly I don’t know what the argument is all about. I say there should be no requirement, you say there should be a requirement.
Tell me, after that requirement is made by the legislators, and mandate, will they start messing with our society? I really like my guns, and of course, my freedom.
@averagejoe1 saidThere are plenty of places that have laws that requiring proof of vaccines for you to enter certain type of establishments (like indoor stadiums and restaurants) or public schools. I believe that as long as the number of cases remain high, the number of laws will increase.
You make my point that it takes laws to effect these requirements of public interaction. It is a law to drive on the correct side of the road, it is a law to have a drivers license. There is no law now that says you must be vaccinated.
So, it is your point that our legislators should make a law covering vaccinations. I understand that. We have been over this, I am in dis ...[text shortened]... mandate, will they start messing with our society? I really like my guns, and of course, my freedom.
@quackquack saidFrankly, I agree with you . A Biden-type, Nanny kind of government will prevail, and and you will be correct with your assessment. I have said that many times in many forum debates, that the liberal causes will win in the end. Obama's promise, to transform America, has been underway for some time.
There are plenty of places that have laws that requiring proof of vaccines for you to enter certain type of establishments (like indoor stadiums and restaurants) or public schools. I believe that as long as the number of cases remain high, the number of laws will increase.
To me, this is a loss of Freedom, of course. And Liberty.
That is all I have been arguing on this subject. I believe in Vax, and many of your points about infections,, crowds, etc, are correct, but it is one more chip at our statue of Freedom. You are a dependent government-relier, you look to govt for sustenance and guidance. I do not. Would you teach your children that it is OK to be subjective to government, which of course, is a loss of liberty?