@rajk999 saidThe British did limit the exodus of Jews to Palestine which angered the extremist Zionist terrorists. They lashed out at the British for it despite the British encouraging it at first. I wonder why. Could it be that tensions were rising too fast and they wanted to avoid militant clashes that could jeopardize the creation of a Zionist state?
I think he is referring to the case of the Exodus, a ship load of Jews who escaped and tried to get to Palestine. The British sent them back to Germany. I think its a one time thing.
@rajk999 saidThe right of the Palestinian People to self-determination isn't terribly controversial at the UN. Just last year:
There are some principles of self-determination which must be adhered to if the UN is going to accept you as a bonafide member state. There are several groups that broke away from the main country and tried to form their own, but nobody really accepts them. So of course you can do it but you may be sidelined.
"The United Nations voted overwhelmingly to approve a draft resolution in favor of Palestinian self-determination, with Israel and the United States voting against.
The proposal on Thursday in the UN General Assembly’s Third Committee — the committee that deals with human rights and humanitarian affairs — passed 163 to 5, with 10 abstentions. Canada, which typically votes alongside Israel in such resolutions, stood with the majority.
The resolution emphasized “the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, including the right to their independent State of Palestine” and “stressed the urgency of achieving without delay an end to the Israeli occupation that began in 1967 and a just, lasting and comprehensive peace settlement between the Palestinian and Israeli sides,” based on a two-state solution."
https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-votes-163-5-in-support-of-palestinian-statehood-end-of-occupation/
@no1marauder
I would support an independent Gaza if they can make a government that does not have the desire to destroy Israel in their charter like Hamas has now.
What would the US do if say Mexico decided to change its constitution to include words saying their goal is to destroy the US?
Which is not to say I totally support the Israeli government, I saw up close what they do to the Palestinians, we lived in Jerusalem for years, I worked at Intel there off and on for most of the '90's and one of my kids graduated from the Anglican International School in Jerusalem and we saw clearly the way the Israeli government treated Palestinians but one overriding problem is other Arab countries refuse to allow Palestinians into their lands like Jordan who has room for ALL of them if they chose to let them in, Arab nations treat Palestinians like the US treats blacks and brown skins here.
@no1marauder saidAll that is nice, but they do not want a two-state solution. Back in 1948, when the UN suggested their partition plan , the Palestinians refused, At that time the Jews were given a bit over 50%, After their refusal, war started and they got pushed back, and the Jews increased the territory they controlled to about 75%.
The right of the Palestinian People to self-determination isn't terribly controversial at the UN. Just last year:
"The United Nations voted overwhelmingly to approve a draft resolution in favor of Palestinian self-determination, with Israel and the United States voting against.
The proposal on Thursday in the UN General Assembly’s Third Committee — the committee tha ...[text shortened]...
https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-votes-163-5-in-support-of-palestinian-statehood-end-of-occupation/
The Palestinians used their territory to launch attacks on the Jews. The next big war was the 1967 Six Day war. They lost more land including Jerusalem.
They do not want a peaceful co-existence with Israel. They want Israel out of Palestine, and that is an impossible goal.
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@sonhouse saidSome of this you are going to laugh at but you can check the history.
@no1marauder
I would support an independent Gaza if they can make a government that does not have the desire to destroy Israel in their charter like Hamas has now.
What would the US do if say Mexico decided to change its constitution to include words saying their goal is to destroy the US?
Which is not to say I totally support the Israeli government, I saw up close what ...[text shortened]... hose to let them in, Arab nations treat Palestinians like the US treats blacks and brown skins here.
The Palestinians are the underdogs of the Arab world. They are the descendents of Ham [interesting coincidence], who was the son of Noah, cursed by God. Ham had several sons one of which was Canaan and they settled in Palestine. God subsequently told Israel to go and wipe out the Canaanites from that land, and to settle there.
Another forefathers of the other Muslims is Ishmael, who received blessing from God. Ishmael was the son of Abraham and Haggar. Children of Ishmael no doubt would be some of the more prosperous of the Arabs. Then Esau, another one that God did not like too much but still was not cursed because he is the blood brother to Jacob, the faither of the Jews. Esau it is believed is the father of the Egyptians [and others], formerly Edom which was part of Jordan and Egypt.
If there are any history bufffs out there and can add or correct this it would be nice. Understanding some of the history of these people is useful. Why is their animosity between Egypt and the Palestinians, or between Jordan and the Palestinians? Hard to say.
@rajk999 saidThose are fairy tales, not history.
Some of this you are going to laugh at but you can check the history.
The Palestinians are the underdogs of the Arab world. They are the descendents of Ham [interesting coincidence], who was the son of Noah, cursed by God. Ham had several sons one of which was Canaan and they settled in Palestine. God subsequently told Israel to go and wipe out the Canaanites from that ...[text shortened]... animosity between Egypt and the Palestinians, or between Jordan and the Palestinians? Hard to say.
@no1marauder saidYou wish. Thats the history, thats the science and it is in the bible. DNA evidence has already established the ancestry of the people of that region.
Those are fairy tales, not history.
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200528115829.htm
The people who lived in the area known as the Southern Levant -- which is now recognized as Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Jordan, Lebanon, and parts of Syria -- during the Bronze Age (circa 3500-1150 BCE) are referred to in ancient biblical texts as the Canaanites. Now, researchers reporting in the journal Cell on May 28 have new insight into the Canaanites' history based on a new genome-wide analysis of ancient DNA collected from 73 individuals.
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@rajk999 saidSorry, I missed in that article where it talks about Noah or Ham or Ishmael or about any God telling one group to drive out another.
You wish. Thats the history, thats the science and it is in the bible. DNA evidence has already established the ancestry of the people of that region.
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200528115829.htm
The people who lived in the area known as the Southern Levant -- which is now recognized as Israel, the Palestinian Auth ...[text shortened]... cient DNA collected from 73 individuals.
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@rajk999 saidPalestinians are a mixture of Arab, Greek, Roman, Turkish, ancient Iraqi, Egyptian etc but the original Philistines were related to the Greeks.
Some of this you are going to laugh at but you can check the history.
The Palestinians are the underdogs of the Arab world. They are the descendents of Ham [interesting coincidence], who was the son of Noah, cursed by God. Ham had several sons one of which was Canaan and they settled in Palestine. God subsequently told Israel to go and wipe out the Canaanites from that ...[text shortened]... animosity between Egypt and the Palestinians, or between Jordan and the Palestinians? Hard to say.
They are known as the Sea Peoples who were sort of like Vikings but 2000 years earlier in the eastern Mediterranean. They attacked Egypt, were defeated and then Egypt re-settled them in the area around Gaza which was empty at the time. The built five great cities known as the Pentopolis of which Gaza was only one. The others were Ashdod, Ashkelon, Gath and I forget the fifth one.
Europeans are not directly descended from Abraham and Noah because they are not Semites, they are Aryans. Therefore the Philistines were not descended from Noah and Abraham either but now the Palestinians are mixed with Arab so they have that connection.
Isaac was the ancestor of the Jews, and Ishmael of the Arabs. Both descend from Abraham who was a Semite who studied theology in Iraq.
Jews were one of the Canaanite people. Hebrew is a Canaanite language. However after Egypt conquered Canaan and enslaved the Jews they came back under Moses to retake their ancestral lands as well as conquer their neighbors.
I don't know what animosity Jordan or Egypt have with the Palestinians today other than they are poor and rich Arabs seem to hate poor Arabs.
@rajk999 saidThe PLO, the governing faction of the Palestinians, agreed to recognize Israel more than 30 years ago:
All that is nice, but they do not want a two-state solution. Back in 1948, when the UN suggested their partition plan , the Palestinians refused, At that time the Jews were given a bit over 50%, After their refusal, war started and they got pushed back, and the Jews increased the territory they controlled to about 75%.
The Palestinians used their territory to launch atta ...[text shortened]... eaceful co-existence with Israel. They want Israel out of Palestine, and that is an impossible goal.
"ndeed, just days prior to the formal signing of Oslo I, both sides signed a “Letter of Mutual Recognition” in which the PLO agreed to recognize the state of Israel (prior to this agreement, they had viewed the country as existing in violation of international law since its formation in 1948) and the Israelis acknowledged the PLO’s role as a “representative of the Palestinian people.”
https://www.history.com/topics/middle-east/oslo-accords
@athousandyoung saidI thought Hebrew was a Semitic language.
Palestinians are a mixture of Arab, Greek, Roman, Turkish, ancient Iraqi, Egyptian etc but the original Philistines were related to the Greeks.
They are known as the Sea Peoples who were sort of like Vikings but 2000 years earlier in the eastern Mediterranean. They attacked Egypt, were defeated and then Egypt re-settled them in the area around Gaza which was empt ...[text shortened]... pt have with the Palestinians today other than they are poor and rich Arabs seem to hate poor Arabs.
@shavixmir saidThe Canaanites were a Semitic people. There is no paradox here.
I thought Hebrew was a Semitic language.
@athousandyoung saidExcept nobody calls it a Canaanite language. And the Semitic language infers a much larger region. Indeed, one may even contemplate a certain amount of framing by calling it Canaanite; is the language the Palestinians speak Semitic?
The Canaanites were a Semitic people. There is no paradox here.
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@shavixmir saidLinguists call it a Canaanite language
Except nobody calls it a Canaanite language. And the Semitic language infers a much larger region. Indeed, one may even contemplate a certain amount of framing by calling it Canaanite; is the language the Palestinians speak Semitic?
wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language
Having ceased to be a dead language in the 19th century, today's Hebrew serves as the only successful large-scale example of linguistic revival. It is the only non-extinct Canaanite language, and is also one of only two Northwest Semitic languages still spoken, with the other being Aramaic.
Language group:
Afro-Asiatic
Semitic
West Semitic
Central Semitic
Northwest Semitic
Canaanite
Hebrew
Palestinians speak Arabic which is a non-Canaanite Semitic language from Arabia. The ancestral Philistine language was probably some form of Greek but once they settled in Philistine they adopted some language similar to Hebrew. But the land has changed hands many times since then.
@athousandyoung saidInteresting. Thanks!
Linguists call it a Canaanite language
[quote] wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language
Having ceased to be a dead language in the 19th century, today's Hebrew serves as the only successful large-scale example of linguistic revival. It is the only non-extinct Canaanite language, and is also one of only two Northwest Semitic languages still spoken, with the other being ...[text shortened]... they adopted some language similar to Hebrew. But the land has changed hands many times since then.