@AverageJoe1 saidYour perverse idea that it is the responsibility of someone accused of something by the government to "prove" they are innocent of it is the opposite of our and any system not a tyranny has.
Golly, Constitution not withstanding, I just cannot let it be the guide of my conscience when it comes to lawbreakers. Maruader said illegality is only a misdemeanor. Does that change everyting? Is rape or murder a midsdemeanotr? I have to choose between watching them, or studying the constitution in my local library that I am scared to walk to.
Hey, what is that ...[text shortened]... ot say the Trump improper journal entries were misdemeanors.???? Y'all are one group of hypocrit4s.
Most of the rest is just tiresome lies you have been spoon fed and are gullible enough to believe; there was no "open border" under Biden - millions were arrested entering the country and there were hundreds of thousands of removals.
And Trump was convicted of felonies determined to be far more serious than the petty misdemeanor of illegal entry into the country (which is rarely prosecuted unlike Falsifying Business Records).
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@no1marauder said"Petty" cost us plenty. I am sure you can make the constitution say anything convenient for your liberal beliefs, not the least of which would be that James Madison et al wanted us to spend all of our money on invaders from other countries. Really bad thinking man.
Your perverse idea that it is the responsibility of someone accused of something by the government to "prove" they are innocent of it is the opposite of our and any system not a tyranny has.
Most of the rest is just tiresome lies you have been spoon fed and are gullible enough to believe; there was no "open border" under Biden - millions were arrested entering the coun ...[text shortened]... r of illegal entry into the country (which is rarely prosecuted unlike Falsifying Business Records).
Remember, all of the constitution, declaration, preambles and footnotes and everything in between were written with the understanding that the President would be adhering to its principles. Do you follow??? Biden broke off when he opened the border. Go tell this to James Madison, and ask him if we can rely on their constitution to dress and feed and house these invaders, which were let in here in VIOLATION of the terms of the same document!!!
You can say that he did not 'allow for' the influx of invaders till you are blue in the face,,,,,,,we all know he did. Sue knows it, Sonhouse knows it, Moonbeam knows it, they all know it. Stop wasting your ink.
Get back to your issues of can a human marry a parakeet.
@AverageJoe1 saidYou shouldn't mention James Madison; here's what he said about the idea that an "invasion" had anything to do with the mere immigration of people into the country:
"Petty" cost us plenty. I am sure you can make the constitution say anything convenient for your liberal beliefs, not the least of which would be that James Madison et al wanted us to spend all of our money on invaders from other countries. Really bad thinking man.
Remember, all of the constitution, declaration, preambles and footnotes and everything in between ...[text shortened]... did. Sue knows it, Sonhouse knows it, Moonbeam knows it, they all know it. Stop wasting your ink.
"Invasion is an operation of war. To protect against invasion is an exercise of the power of war. A power therefore not incident to war, cannot be incident to a particular modification of war. And as the removal of alien friends has appeared to be no incident to a general state of war, it cannot be incident to a partial state, or a particular modification of war."
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-17-02-0202
So much for your and Trump's "invasion" BS as a justification for removal.
BTW, we had a real "open border" for almost the first 100 years of our country's existence.
You and other ignorant right wingers stamping your feet and insisting we had one when Biden was President doesn't change that lie into a fact.
@AverageJoe1 saidInterestingly, libertarian law professor Ilya Somin discussed the point I raised in the last post refuting Joe's constant reference to immigrants crossing the border without prior authorization as "invaders" several years ago in this article:
"Petty" cost us plenty. I am sure you can make the constitution say anything convenient for your liberal beliefs, not the least of which would be that James Madison et al wanted us to spend all of our money on invaders from other countries. Really bad thinking man.
Remember, all of the constitution, declaration, preambles and footnotes and everything in between ...[text shortened]... all know it. Stop wasting your ink.
Get back to your issues of can a human marry a parakeet.
https://reason.com/volokh/2023/05/18/immigration-is-not-invasion/
"As a matter of logic and common sense, the equation of illegal migration and invasion makes little sense. Invasion involves large-scale use of force (or at least threat of force) to seize territory. Russia's attack on Ukraine is an invasion. Migrants crossing a border in search of freedom and opportunity are not. We do, of course, have metaphorical uses of the word "invasion," as with "invasion of privacy" or even the 1960s "British Invasion" of UK rock music. But such metaphorical uses should not be conflated with literal ones. Claims that immigration is a kind of "invasion" are about the latter."
He did underrate the possibility of right wing duplicity when he stated in it: "For these and other reasons, we are unlikely to see any significant litigation over the meaning of "invasion" as it relates to immigration, anytime soon." In fact, this will be a central issue when the SCOTUS eventually reviews Trump's invocation of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 as a justification to skip legally required deportation procedures.
@no1marauder saidGood stuff, reminds me of class. But your posts are defeated, rendered moot, if we find that the illegals were not invading!
Interestingly, libertarian law professor Ilya Somin discussed the point I raised in the last post refuting Joe's constant reference to immigrants crossing the border without prior authorization as "invaders" several years ago in this article:
https://reason.com/volokh/2023/05/18/immigration-is-not-invasion/
"As a matter of logic and common sense, the equation of ille ...[text shortened]... of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 as a justification to skip legally required deportation procedures.
According to the 1763 printing of the work, to invade was to “attack or set upon.” To “set upon” meant to make a sudden and unexpected physical attack, which is similar to how the phrase is widely used today. Similarly, another dictionary, printed in 1753 by John Bevis, records that to invade was to “enter by force” or to “seize and lay hold of.”
Regardless of one’s personal disposition on immigration and military policy, the founders’ understanding of “invasion” did not pertain to mere travel or migration from one country to another.
According to the 1763 printing of the work, to invade was to “attack or set upon.” To “set upon” meant to make a sudden and unexpected physical attack, which is similar to how the phrase is widely used today. Similarly, another dictionary, printed in 1753 by John Bevis, records that to invade was to “enter by force” or to “seize and lay hold of.”
Regardless of one’s personal disposition on immigration and military policy, the founders’ understanding of “invasion” did not pertain to mere travel or migration from one country to another.
@AverageJoe1 saidWho are you? Joey two times? You are waaay out of marauders league.
Good stuff, reminds me of class. But your posts are defeated, rendered moot, if we find that the illegals were not invading!
According to the 1763 printing of the work, to invade was to “attack or set upon.” To “set upon” meant to make a sudden and unexpected physical attack, which is similar to how the phrase is widely used today. Similarly, another dictionary, printe ...[text shortened]... understanding of “invasion” did not pertain to mere travel or migration from one country to another.
@AverageJoe1 saidIn short you totally agree with Trump that he and HE ALONE has the power to throw people in foreign prisons with no due process.
Golly, Constitution not withstanding, I just cannot let it be the guide of my conscience when it comes to lawbreakers. Maruader said illegality is only a misdemeanor. Does that change everyting? Is rape or murder a midsdemeanotr? I have to choose between watching them, or studying the constitution in my local library that I am scared to walk to.
Hey, what is that ...[text shortened]... ot say the Trump improper journal entries were misdemeanors.???? Y'all are one group of hypocrit4s.
He SAYS someone is a cartel dude and off with his head.
@YEAH-BOY saidWhat, a competition? He has me beat on research, that is for sure. I seriously wonder how he does it, I had someone doing that for me in earlier days. I'm sure he is cool with that, but I am old-school debate.....no one brung links to the stage!! We were on our own.
Who are you? Joey two times? You are waaay out of marauders league.
Sonhouse beats me in some areas as well. I don't think Moonbus could beat me though, as no socialist has ever beat a capitalist. Can you name one??
@sonhouse saidHas Garcia bared his skin yet? for tattoos? Why not? And as he came here illegally, he is no better than Ashley Babbitt on Jan 6 who walked into danger and got shot. Her choice. He walked into the USA, illegally, and that is the same thing. Bad choices.
In short you totally agree with Trump that he and HE ALONE has the power to throw people in foreign prisons with no due process.
He SAYS someone is a cartel dude and off with his head.
We can argue all day about his due process, which applies to an alien who is here legally , protected by Constitutional rights, but in my opinion, he ain't got none. Swept up in a raid with other illegals? What in the hell did he think he would get?????? Milk and cookies????
I'd like to know if he has taken steps, gone to USA classes, etc, to qualify to become a citizen. My barber did. Does he have the same rights as my barber? An illegal does not have the same rights as my barber....or me. If he has not the resepect we require of new citizens, it is just one more reason to get him out.
And truly, the news that he will not be welcome, that he may be imprisoned (for what!!???) in el Salvador......what business is that of ours?? Get Marauder to explain that we have no duty to this guy about his problems back home. Hmmmmmm. Bad choices??
@AverageJoe1 saidYES we CAN argue about DUE PROCESS. THAT IS WHAT SEPARATES US FROM PUTIN. But OF COURSE since your lips are superglued to Trumps ass you will NEVER understand what makes the US different from Putin's Russia. You remember the case of Navalny in Russia? They make a mockery of justice. If Trump wins out that will be EXACTLY how our courts will run.
Has Garcia bared his skin yet? for tattoos? Why not? And as he came here illegally, he is no better than Ashley Babbitt on Jan 6 who walked into danger and got shot. Her choice. He walked into the USA, illegally, and that is the same thing. Bad choices.
We can argue all day about his due process, which applies to an alien who is here legally , protected by Cons ...[text shortened]... o explain that we have no duty to this guy about his problems back home. Hmmmmmm. Bad choices??
But for now EVERYONE has the right to a hearing before a court if accused, something those poor dudes never got and never will if Trump has his way.
We only know Trump ANNOUNCED they are Cartel.
NO COURTS have made that judgement yet and maybe he is right but he does NOT have the right to just kidnap people and send them of to a gulog.
HE IS NOT YET A KING even though that is on his thoughts 24/7.
That push to authoritarianism is why he is attacking universities, just following through with what Vance said,
Universities are the ENEMY.
That is a direct quote BTW.
Trump was, is and always WILL be a TRAITOR.
But you, being a professional Troll will deny that even if he goes to prison in 5 years or whatever.
NO MATTER WHAT EVIDENCE PRESENTS ITSELF you will never believe Trump is CAPABLE of crime much less doing it.
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@sonhouse saidThe evidence I see right now is that you are in favor of illegals walking our streets. Not being sent back, having broken our laws. Maruader said misdemeanors, no big deal. Tell that to Trump.,
YES we CAN argue about DUE PROCESS. THAT IS WHAT SEPARATES US FROM PUTIN. But OF COURSE since your lips are superglued to Trumps ass you will NEVER understand what makes the US different from Putin's Russia. You remember the case of Navalny in Russia? They make a mockery of justice. If Trump wins out that will be EXACTLY how our courts will run.
But for now EVERYONE has th ...[text shortened]... R WHAT EVIDENCE PRESENTS ITSELF you will never believe Trump is CAPABLE of crime much less doing it.
Has Garcia been in immigrant school, aspiring to citizenship status? Just a thought.
Do you want people that we dont know feeding off our land, putting us in danger, living in secret cells making plans? You are a traitor, are you?
I have more questions, but don't you just hate verbose posts??
And why keep telling me to dislike Trump? Hey, I want you to like Trump beduaes he says there are 2 genders male and female, or men and women. Do you believe that, Sonhouse? Another question you.
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@AverageJoe1 saidThe evidence I SEE is YOU being complicit with Trump kidnapping with out a hearing in court to argue there case.
The evidence I see right now is that you are in favor of illegals walking our streets. Not being sent back, having broken our laws. Maruader said misdemeanors, no big deal. Tell that to Trump.,
Has Garcia been in immigrant school, aspiring to citizenship status? Just a thought.
Do you want people that we dont know feeding off our land, putting us in danger, livi ...[text shortened]... 2 genders male and female, or men and women. Do you believe that, Sonhouse? Another question you.
Tell me, how much argument did they get before a court?
EVERYONE has that right you POS IDIOT.
You are again PROVING you are a professional TROLL AND you are just FINE with Trump becoming a king and it is also clear you think our democracy experiment has run itself out in the 250 years of its existence.
You WANT a kingship but ONLY if your GOD Trump is king.
I NEVER said I was ok with immigrant crime. I am also not ok with ANY crime, like the CRIMES committed ALREADY by Trump but Trump is above the law, so there is law for you and I and another set of laws for Trump. THAT IS CLEAR.
And you think that is the way it SHOULD be.
Unless of course Trump gets his sorry ass kicked out by election or impeachment and a cursed DEMOCRAT gets elected and now has the same powers as Trump USED to have in that future I imagined, in THAT future you would be screaming at the top of your lungs ABUSE OF POWER, NO DEM should have that power, ONLY MY LORD TRUMP should have that power.
@sonhouse saidHow can a person kidnap someone who is illegally in the place from which they are kidnapped???? ( Please re-read this, my question, so that the issue may sink into your pea-sized brain!!!!!!) (oops, sorry, got carried away, please forgive me for personal attack, you would ever do that to me!)
The evidence I SEE is YOU being complicit with Trump kidnapping with out a hearing in court to argue there case.
Tell me, how much argument did they get before a court?
EVERYONE has that right you POS IDIOT.
You are again PROVING you are a professional TROLL AND you are just FINE with Trump becoming a king and it is also clear you think our democracy experiment has run it ...[text shortened]... your lungs ABUSE OF POWER, NO DEM should have that power, ONLY MY LORD TRUMP should have that power.
Anyone!?!?!? SHouse will not answer my question, he is a raver, he does not answer questions, he raves. Can someone answer this question??
@AverageJoe1 saidYou really don't get the part where the constitution says PERSON, that means ANYONE here. NOT WHITE FOLKS or Black folks but EVERY FRIGGING ONE.
How can a person kidnap someone who is illegally in the place from which they are kidnapped???? ( Please re-read this, my question, so that the issue may sink into your pea-sized brain!!!!!!) (oops, sorry, got carried away, please forgive me for personal attack, you would ever do that to me!)
Anyone!?!?!? SHouse will not answer my question, he is a raver, he does not answer questions, he raves. Can someone answer this question??
What the HELL is wrong with you? You are clearly saying SCREW the constitution, it means nothing now that my Lord Trump is in power, since he rules over ALL of it AND the courts. How ELSE am I supposed to interpret what you write as a pro Troll?