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Are workers' rights being ignored ?
Next Sunday is the first of May, which is traditionally a holiday to mark the struggle for workers' rights.
However, in recent years May Day has become associated with protests against capitalism, globalisation, and even the war in Iraq.
In many countries, union membership is at an all-time low. Only 28.5% of the UK workforce is unionised. In the USA, the figure is around 13%.
Many workers in the developing world are banned from joining unions, and those that try can face threats of detention, violence and murder.
-Is there enough protection for workers?
-What can be done to strengthen workers' rights around the world?
-What role has the fall of communism and the rise of the global economy played ?
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Originally posted by ivanhoeIf you are really concerned about workers in developing countries, you would be a supporter of globalisation. The trade barriers are highest in developed counties, preventing poorer countries from providing goods and services to the consumers with the most money.
Are workers' rights being ignored ?
Next Sunday is the first of May, which is traditionally a holiday to mark the struggle for workers' rights.
However, in recent years May Day has become associated with protests against capitali ...[text shortened]... the fall of communism and the rise of the global economy played ?
Of course third world workers are exploited - as Americans were in the late nineteenth century or Japanese workers were in the fifties. Rising demand and skill level allows workers to demand better conditions, as has happened in the West. And these workers in developed countries are now preventing workers from outside improving themselves in the same way.
Originally posted by ivanhoeHow can Christianity reconcile itself with Capitalism? Especially since in its earliest days the Church was very communistic in many regards. Although there have been many examples of churchmen who have supported leftist causes (like the late Bishop Romero of El Salvador for example), the Church itself has been notorious for supporting right wing governments. A prime example being the Church's support for Franco's Nationalists during the Spanish Civil War which contributed to the defeat of the leftist Republican Government. Is it the case that when the Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire they decided to sweep their communistic origins under the rug?
Are workers' rights being ignored ?
Next Sunday is the first of May, which is traditionally a holiday to mark the struggle for workers' rights.
However, in recent years May Day has become associated with protests against capitalism, globalisation, and even the war in Iraq.
In many countries, union membership is at an all-time low. Only 28.5% o ...[text shortened]... und the world?
-What role has the fall of communism and the rise of the global economy played ?
Originally posted by rwingettRwingett: "How can Christianity reconcile itself with Capitalism?"
How can Christianity reconcile itself with Capitalism? Especially since in its earliest days the Church was very communistic in many regards. Although there have been many examples of churchmen who have supported leftist causes (like the late Bishop Romero of El Salvador for example), the Church itself has been notorious for supporting right wing government ...[text shortened]... cial religion of the Roman Empire they decided to sweep their communistic origins under the rug?
It doesn't !
Originally posted by ivanhoeThe catholic church in Ireland in the early to very late 20th century forced young girls into slave labour for the purposes of turning a profit. Slavery for profit is a very capitalist idea.
Rwingett: "How can Christianity reconcile itself with Capitalism?"
It doesn't !
As capitalism uses marketing and PR to deflect away from the truth of slave labour, so has the Vatican in 2003, going so far as to tell viewers of the movie that "they risked eternal damnation for watching such sacrilegious entertainment."
As for your initial post, you raise some good questions, which I hope to have the time to address sometime soon.
D
Originally posted by monster truckCoca Cola
Where do you get this information from? Or is it opinion?
I'm confused.... as usual!
http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia73.htm
Nike
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/archive/970385.stm
Walmart
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1143880,00.html
The list goes on, and on; Gap, Levis, Adidas, most top corporations are involved.
I presume you don't need me to detail how marketing and PR is used to keep these things quiet?
D
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Originally posted by ivanhoeFrom the Encyclical "Rerum Novarum" (1891) Leo XIII:
Rwingett: "How can Christianity reconcile itself with Capitalism?"
It doesn't !
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html
"Hence, by degrees it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition. The mischief has been increased by rapacious usury, which, although more than once condemned by the Church, is nevertheless, under a different guise, but with like injustice, still practiced by covetous and grasping men. To this must be added that the hiring of labor and the conduct of trade are concentrated in the hands of comparatively few; so that a small number of very rich men have been able to lay upon the teeming masses of the laboring poor a yoke little better than that of slavery itself."
This doesn't sound to me as a "reconciliation" between the Roman-Catholic Church and the ideology of capitalism, on the contrary.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html
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Originally posted by RagnorakInteresting and informative, but still no mention of slaves, only workers.
Coca Cola
http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia73.htm
Walmart
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1143880,00.html
D
And these workers are the same types of people lured by the U.S. propaganda machine to the U.S. ....
Now that I have more information, I'm even more confused that usual!
I appreciate the info, tho.
Sounds like another good reason to buy products Made In The
U.S.A.
Thanks
K
😉😉
Originally posted by ivanhoeThat was written at the hieght of the "robber baron" phase of capitalistic development when workers were horribly exploited and forced to work in appalling conditions. It is not clear whether the document is condemning capitalism or merely the worst excesses of capitalism. I certainly don't think the Church has ever embraced socialism. As I pointed out, they've had a history of supporting regimes like Franco's Nationalists against the leftist Republican government during the Spanish Civil War.
From the Encyclical "Rerum Novarum" (1891) Leo XIII:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html
"Hence, by degrees it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition. The mischi ...[text shortened]... ly_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html
Do you have any documents which spell out the Church's position on capitalism vs. socialism?
Originally posted by ivanhoeI have a dream ... one day Wal Mart will institute a profit-sharing scheme with its workers ... in sweatshops ...
Are workers' rights being ignored ?
Next Sunday is the first of May, which is traditionally a holiday to mark the struggle for workers' rights.
However, in recent years May Day has become associated with protests against capitalism, globalisation, and even the war in Iraq.
In many countries, union membership is at an all-time low. Only 28.5% o ...[text shortened]... und the world?
-What role has the fall of communism and the rise of the global economy played ?
Originally posted by rwingettThe same encyclical that Ivanhoe cited says this:
That was written at the hieght of the "robber baron" phase of capitalistic development when workers were horribly exploited and forced to work in appalling conditions. It is not clear whether the document is condemning capitalism or merely the worst excesses of capitalism. I certainly don't think the Church has ever embraced socialism. As I pointed out, ...[text shortened]...
Do you have any documents which spell out the Church's position on capitalism vs. socialism?
"To remedy these wrongs (the unjust distribution of wealth and the poverty of the workers), the socialists encourage the poor man's envy of the rich and strive to do away with private property, contending that individual possessions should become the common property of all...; but their contentions are so clearly powerless to end the controversy that, were they carried into effect, the working man himself would be among the first to suffer. They are moreover emphatically unjust, for they would rob the lawful possessor, distort the functions of the State, and create utter confusion in the community."
Sounds like the Pope was a good, old-fashioned capitalist after all!
Originally posted by rwingettPlease give me time to find the passages in the relevant documents that deal with these issues.
That was written at the hieght of the "robber baron" phase of capitalistic development when workers were horribly exploited and forced to work in appalling conditions. It is not clear whether the document is condemning capitalism or merely the worst excesses of capitalism. I certainly don't think the Church has ever embraced socialism. As I pointed out, ...[text shortened]...
Do you have any documents which spell out the Church's position on capitalism vs. socialism?
From Rerum Novarum (1891)
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON CAPITAL AND LABOR
10. So strong and convincing are these arguments that it seems amazing that some should now be setting up anew certain obsolete opinions in opposition to what is here laid down. They assert that it is right for private persons to have the use of the soil and its various fruits, but that it is unjust for any one to possess outright either the land on which he has built or the estate which he has brought under cultivation. But those who deny these rights do not perceive that they are defrauding man of what his own labor has produced. For the soil which is tilled and cultivated with toil and skill utterly changes its condition; it was wild before, now it is fruitful; was barren, but now brings forth in abundance. That which has thus altered and improved the land becomes so truly part of itself as to be in great measure indistinguishable and inseparable from it. Is it just that the fruit of a man's own sweat and labor should be possessed and enjoyed by any one else? As effects follow their cause, so is it just and right that the results of labor should belong to those who have bestowed their labor.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html
The above is a defence of the notion of private ownership as being in accordance with the Law of Nature.
For those who studied Marx the last sentence could well be taken out of the "Communist Manifesto" or "Das Kapital".
The conclusion by many that the ideology of capitalism is fully compatible with or even resembles the teachings of the Church is drawn a bit too eagerly and meant to place the Church in the ideological corner they would like the Church to be in.