Originally posted by AThousandYoungI'm sure they do a lot worse. Haven't there been trials of "decent American” boys (and girls). I find it incredible to believe that there are Americans who don't believe this goes on. There are very few people on this planet outside America that would be surprised by this sort of behavior from American troops. These guys thought what they were doing was funny. The All American girl prison guard thought it was fun to humiliate and sexually degrade prisoners of war.
The accents are definitely American and I've met way too many Americans who would pull this crap. Are you that sure that American troops are so respectful of Iraqis and disciplined that they wouldn't do something like this?
Originally posted by AThousandYoungno i'm sure there are American troops who might well behave like this. that's what you get when you recruit large numbers of people with little education and not many other options than joining the armed forces. what i'm questioning is this specific video. I don't think the accent should count for too much - people around the world who've learnt English from American teachers tend to have American accents to some degree, and it's not that hard to fake anyway...
The accents are definitely American and I've met way too many Americans who would pull this crap. Are you that sure that American troops are so respectful of Iraqis and disciplined that they wouldn't do something like this?
The video may be genuine - i'm just saying that that is open to question. Lots of people who scoff at CNN coverage, for example, lap stuff like this up without question, because it reinforces beliefs they already hold.
Originally posted by drdonsure, people probably do think that - i myself wouldn't be surprised to see US troops acting in this way. The only point I was trying to make is that it is important, I think, not to just take so-called 'evidence' at face value, but to question it...
The video may be questionable, although it looks (and sounds) legit to me . The point is that I don't know of anybody who would be surprised at American troops doing this sought of thing. Doesn’t this mean that people think this is normal for American troops?
Then, I'm glad to say, we are in agreement. Evidence never "speaks for itself".
Invading forces often do things that they would in other circumstances consider wrong or immoral precisely because the constraints they feel at home don't exist in hostile environments. This one of the factors that makes invasion such an evil thing: It makes moral humans amoral.
Ignorance & thread killing is always chosen so people don't have to feel guilty at what has/is/will happen in Iraq. The prison in Baghdad was a good example of this, where Iraqi people(not prisoners but suspects) were getting humiliated and abused. It was acceptable behaviour that US soliders could feel proud about... even sending photos and videos back to their loved ones in America.
Maybe it's time for America to lose it's pride, and combate it's own wrongs that affect the system with nothing but harm.
According to what I heard, American troops acted like idiots in England during WW2, Korea, Viet Nam and every place else they went. But, I also personally saw British troops acting the same way when I saw them in various places while in the military. So did the Italian troops. So did the Russian troops. So did the (insert any name here) troops. History is riddled with stories like this by armies of all nationalities. Start removing restraints and people get ugly; it’s part of human nature. I’d wager half the insults and name calling in these threads would not happen if people were face to face. But, make everyone anonymous, and you see what happens…people who under normal circumstances act with a measure of courtesy can get pretty nasty. Some of them remind me of people who write on bathroom walls, or does that just happen in America?
Originally posted by masscatWell said! The video says more about war than it does about Americans in general. Australia is a wonderful country. Australians, for the most part, are wonderful people, despite a shocking record of past genocide against and current neglect of its indigenous people. Yet some Australian troops participated in heinous activities during the Vietnam conflict (eg water torture of Vietcong prisoners).
According to what I heard, American troops acted like idiots in England during WW2, Korea, Viet Nam and every place else they went. But, I also personally saw British troops acting the same way when I saw them in various places while in the military. So did the Italian troops. So did the Russian troops. So did the (insert any name here) troops. History i ...[text shortened]... me of them remind me of people who write on bathroom walls, or does that just happen in America?
While the incident captured on video is relatively trivial, it is an excellent example of the de-humanising nature of war, irrespective of who is involved in the conflict, irrespective of whether the conflict is popularly deemed to be right or wrong.
Originally posted by drdonWell said. That gets my rec.
Well said! The video says more about war than it does about Americans in general. Australia is a wonderful country. Australians, for the most part, are wonderful people, despite a shocking record of past genocide against and current neglect of its indigenous people. Yet some Australian troops participated in heinous activities during the Vietnam conflict (eg w ...[text shortened]... in the conflict, irrespective of whether the conflict is popularly deemed to be right or wrong.
Originally posted by drdonOf course, but rbmorris hit the nail on the head some posts before.
Well said! The video says more about war than it does about Americans in general. Australia is a wonderful country. Australians, for the most part, are wonderful people, despite a shocking record of past genocide against and current neglect of its indigenous people. Yet some Australian troops participated in heinous activities during the Vietnam conflict (eg w ...[text shortened]... in the conflict, irrespective of whether the conflict is popularly deemed to be right or wrong.
It's delusion to think that local populations will still support foreign troops given enough occupation time. The actions of the jerks (be them few or many) will eventually outweigh the perception of the good deeds.
Originally posted by PalynkaFor sure... they weren't good enough.
Of course, but rbmorris hit the nail on the head some posts before.
It's delusion to think that local populations will still support foreign troops given enough occupation time. The actions of the jerks (be them few or many) will eventually outweigh the perception of the good deeds.
Staying/controlling well only cause hate among Iraqi people, making it effectively a worse place.