General
27 Jun 16
01 Jul 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOuch, indeed. That could bite hard.
Let us take an example of a UK student studying at a University in the Netherlands. As an EU student she is charged tuition fees in accordance with those charged by the Dutch state on its own citizens. As an oversees non European student her tuition fees are almost four times those of a member state of the EU Ouch.
I do not know how many Britons are living and working in EU countries outside Britain, but a significant number I should think will be not pleased about Brexit. Once Britain leaves the EU, they could in theory be taxed not only at different rates to EU citizens, but double-taxed as well, by their countries of residence and again by Britain. Ouch again. Double taxation is ruled out between EU members. Britain will find itself saddled with mountains of new bureaucracy to re-negotiate these matters, piecemeal, with each member state, as Switzerland now does. Wasn't it easier to negotiate that sort of thing en bloc with all of them, once?
01 Jul 16
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterIf devolution of power is a good in itself, then this does bear on Scottish independence. What historic or romantic or spiritual or economic reasons the Scots may have for wanting independence is not the issue; it is for the Scots to decide, not England -- if devolution of power is a good in itself, that is.
Of this devolved power has no bearing whatsoever in the Scottish independence campaign; their struggle is a spiritual one dating back to Bannockburn, as Robbie likes to sleep mentioning.
Taken to its logical conclusion, Basque independence, Catalan independence, Flemish independence, and Cornish independence cannot be far behind. Anyone with an identifiable dialect or custom or local 'interest' to protect may claim an entitlement to opt-out and implement self-rule unilaterally.
EDIT: Passport to Pimlico !
01 Jul 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDid you really not understand the point that Rank outsider was making or are you just pretending not to understand it and then using the affectation as a kind of 'debating point'?
Gee we can control indirect taxes on stuff like sanitary towels, Awesome! What a great reason.
01 Jul 16
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterIt would be unwise to suppose that such a thing is impossible, in any country.
I'm sure the UK will become a despot state full of sweatshops and dungeons within a fortnight of leaving.
I'll take the risk.
Le Pen very nearly got elected in France. Bush got elected in America -- then came 9/11, now every tourist is fingerprinted and iris scanned, and the NSA recently issued a directive to all foreign travelers to divulge their facebook/twitter/social network identities (presumably including RHP moniker). You don't think that's going just a bit too far?
It could happen in Britain, too.
Originally posted by FMFoh dear, is making debate personal really the pinnacle of your powers of discernment. I asked you for a valid reason on why it was good that the UK left the EU. You could not provide a single valid reason and the one that you did provide was based on nothing more than a steaming pile of conjecture. Clearly I was asking the wrong person because you infact did not know anything and could not furnish me with a single valid reason. Rank outsider at least knew what he was talking about even if the arguments that he provided were not that convincing, lets look at them
Did you really not understand the point that Rank outsider was making or are you just pretending not to understand it and then using the affectation as a kind of 'debating point'?
It was a good idea to leave the EU because we will have full autonomous power over indirect taxation. Lets put it in context.
It is a good idea for the UK to leave the EU because we can reduce taxation on tampons.
wuh? Then it was stated that it is aklso good because we can reduce taxation on domestic services? But we laready have one of the lowest taxes on domestic services of any EU memebr stae and our tarifs are high not because of taxation but other factors.
Lets put that in context.
Its a good reason for the UK to leave the EU because we will be able to reduce taxation on services that already have minimal taxation anyway.
Awesome!
But the best was FMF attempting to cite a valid tangible benefit of devolved power.. We shall have full autonomous control of visas, citizenship and residency issues? But we already have full autonomous control over visas, citizenship and residency issues FMF.
Lets put that in context. It will be good for the UK to leave the EU because it will restore to us powers that we already have anyway.
Yipee!
01 Jul 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell Rank outsider raised an interesting one which still stands despite your attempts to avoid acknowledging it.
oh dear, is making debate personal really the pinnacle of your powers of discernment. i asked you for a valid reason on why it was good that the UK left the EU, you could not provide a single valid reason and the one that you did provide was based on nothing more than a steaming pile of conjecture. Clearly I was asking the wrong person because you infact did not know anything.
It is undoubtedly a tangible benefit to the British body politic and to supporters of British democracy that such decisions affecting British people will not be subject to a veto by just any single one of 27 other countries.
You may prefer that veto power to remain in place ~ maybe it's even something that you'd perceive as a tangible benefit to you if it did remain in place ~ but this does not mean that the return of this power to the UK parliament is not a very real and practical political benefit.
01 Jul 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you believe that it is of benefit to the UK that another country has the right of veto over a range of taxes that British people may have levied upon them, that's fine. You can even keep mentioning tampons if that amuses you. But nothing you are saying can make the fact that there are clear political and democratic benefits from restoring powers to London that had been transferred to Brussels go away, which makes your statement on page 6 rather absurd.
It is a good idea for the UK to leave the EU because we cad reduce taxation on tampons.
Yay!
01 Jul 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt's probably a good thing for the health of this discussion for you to have acknowledged this at last.
It was a good idea to leave the EU because we will have full autonomous power over indirect taxation. Lets put it in context.
01 Jul 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThree edits to this post after you'd read my reply, robbie?
oh dear, is making debate personal really the pinnacle of your powers of discernment. I asked you for a valid reason on why it was good that the UK left the EU. You could not provide a single valid reason and the one that you did provide was based on nothing more than a steaming pile of conjecture. Clearly I was asking the wrong person because you ...[text shortened]... e UK to leave the EU because it will restore to us powers that we already have anyway.
Yipee!
01 Jul 16
Originally posted by FMFSorry I am uninterested in your tedious and predictable attempts to make references to personal considerations rather than tackle the actual issues at hand.
It's probably a good thing for the health of this discussion for you to have acknowledged this at last.
So far,
It is a good idea for the UK to leave the EU because we can reduce taxation on tampons. - RO
Its a good reason for the UK to leave the EU because we will be able to reduce taxation on services that already have minimal taxation anyway. - RO
It will be good for the UK to leave the EU because it will restore to us powers that we already have - FMF
It will be good for the UK to leave the EU because, , , err. . . err. . . . what about Scotland! - divegeester.
01 Jul 16
Originally posted by FMFYour petty whining holds no interest for me, sorry dude. You know what I am just gonna stick to asking people that know what they are talking about, its self evident that you have no clue. Sorry no offence intended.
Why not just respond to my reply rather than going back and editing a post already replied to over and over again?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieCitizens of E.U. countries have the right to live and work in the UK. They do not need to obtain a visa or work permit in order to do so. Somebody from outside Europe does not have these rights and has to obtain residency and work visas.
But the best was FMF attempting to cite a valid tangible benefit of devolved power.. We shall have full autonomous control of visas, citizenship and residency issues? But we already have full autonomous control over visas, citizenship and residency issues FMF.
These European nationals possess the same rights as UK citizens, in this respect. I doubt that this arrangement will survive the UK exiting from the E.U.
For those who voted for Brexit, this restoration of UK national control over who lives and works in Britain by way of the issuance of visas and work permits will be a clear tangible benefit of the UK extricating itself from the European project.