Brexit reflections so far

Originally posted by FMF
E.U. citizens from 20+ countries have residency rights and rights to work and rights to buy property that are in many cases indistinguishable from those of U.K. citizens. This will most likely not be the case anymore in about 2 or 3 years from now. I'll let Brexiteers explain it to you.

'likely' not be the case, how so? are you making this up as you along? do you have any other imaginary powers that we have ceded to the EU so that we can magically restore them in a likely manner at some unspecified point in the future?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
'likely' not be the case, how so? are you making this up as you along?

I do not know what a post-Brexit UK government will negotiate with Europe over the next 2-3 years.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
do you have any other imaginary powers that we have ceded to the EU so that we can magically restore them in a likely manner at some unspecified point in the future?

I'll leave it to a Brexit supporter to go through with you ~ if they think your interest is genuine.

Originally posted by FMF
I do not know what a post-Brexit UK government will negotiate with Europe over the next 2-3 years.

You don't seem to know anything in this regard!

Is the UK now not fully in control of decisions to award visas, residency and citizenship rights? If so then your assertion that we will restore these powers to ourselves is ludicrous!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You don't seem to know anything in this regard!

Is the UK now not fully in control of decisions to award visas, residency and citizenship rights? If so then your assertion that we will restore these powers to ourselves is ludicrous!

Ask a Brexiteer about the details. On page 6 you claimed "I have asked several people and they so far have failed to cite a single tangible benefit."

I thought the suggestion that people who voted to leave had not sought, argued for - and will have gained [once the exit is finalized] "tangible benefits" - was patently untrue. So I have challenged you over it.

I would have voted Remain. I am not a Bexiteer. I just thought your claim that there were no "tangible benefits" that you were aware of when the "tangible benefits" are political ones in the eyes of those seeking devolution of powers back to the UK was nonsense.

Originally posted by FMF
Ask a Brexiteer about the details. On page 6 you claimed "I have asked several people and they so far have failed to cite a single tangible benefit." I thought the suggestion that people who voted to leave had not sought - and gained - "tangible benefits" - was patently untrue. So I have challenged you over it.

I would have voted Remain. I am not a Bexiteer. ...[text shortened]... re political ones in the eyes of those seeking devolution of powers back to the UK was nonsense.

Yes but you have still failed to cite a single tangible benefit. When pressed for a specific example of devolution which you proffered as a tangible benefit you mentioned full control over visas, citizenship and residency but could not tell us what powers regarding these we have actually ceded to the EU so as to restore them and still cannot tell us. Ouch.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Yes but you have still failed to cite a single tangible benefit. .

Devolution of political powers from Brussels to London. More democratic control over the UK government by the British electorate. These are tangible benefits in the eyes of those who voted for it. You can no longer claim that no one has cited "a single tangible benefit". Perhaps you should have said, on page 6, something about 'no one has cited a single reason I agree with'.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You don't seem to know anything in this regard!

Is the UK now not fully in control of decisions to award visas, residency and citizenship rights? If so then your assertion that we will restore these powers to ourselves is ludicrous!

Sigh.

We could:

1 Remove VAT on tampons.

2 Ignore European State Aid rules which restrict the ability of the U.K. Government to provide tax incentives/reliefs to start up companies.

3 Repeal/amend thousands of pages of poorly drafted financial services legislation that has added unnecessary costs onto anyone who has a pension, thereby depressing returns.

Do you want me to go on?

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Sigh.

We could:

1 Remove VAT on tampons.

2 Ignore European State Aid rules which restrict the ability of the U.K. Government to provide tax incentives/reliefs to start up companies.

3 Repeal/amend thousands of pages of poorly drafted financial services legislation that has added unnecessary costs onto anyone who has a pension, thereby depressing returns.

Do you want me to go on?

yes,

we have ceded the right to remove tax on tampons to the EU?

seriously?

Originally posted by FMF
Devolution of political powers from Brussels to London. More democratic control over the UK government by the British electorate. These are tangible benefits in the eyes of those who voted for it. You can no longer claim that no one has cited "a single tangible benefit". Perhaps you should have said, on page 6, something about 'no one has cited a single reason I agree with'.

you failed to provide a single tangible benefit of devolution and the one you did cite you could not corroborate.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes,

we have ceded the right to remove tax on tampons to the EU?

seriously?

Yes. We have no power to remove it.

A decision to remove it must be brought forward by the European Commission (the civil service) and then approved by all Member States.

So any country can veto the change and the U.K. would have to continue charging VAT.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you failed to provide a single tangible benefit of devolution and the one you did cite you could not corroborate.

Devolution is a tangible benefit, in and of itself.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Yes. We have no power to remove it.

A decision to remove it must be brought forward by the European Commission (the civil service) and then approved by all Member States.

So any country can veto the change and the U.K. would have to continue charging VAT.

And yet here is a video in which David Cameron states that the UK can remove VAT not only on tampons but a number of other sanitary products.

He said the European Commission "will publish a proposal in the next few days to allow countries to extend the number of zero rates for VAT".

He said he understood that the EU's rules on taxation were "inflexible" and saw how they "could cause considerable frustration".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tampon-tax-david-cameron-announces-end-to-vat-on-sanitary-products-in-house-of-commons-a6944371.html

Dated 31st March 2016

Originally posted by FMF
Devolution is a tangible benefit, in and of itself.

So tangible that you failed to cite a single specific example of its outworking and the one you did was ludicrous cause we already had that power anyway.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
and yet here is a video in which David Cameron states that the UK can remove VAT not only on tampons but a number of other sanitary products.

He said the European Commission "will publish a proposal in the next few days to allow countries to extend the number of zero rates for VAT".

He said he understood that the EU's rules on taxation were "inflexible" and saw how they "could cause considerable frustration".

dated 21st March 2016

Yes. The U.K. is requesting the European Commission bring forward a proposal as I set out.

Until the Commission does, we cannot remove VAT. And a single country could block this.

I could just as easily have said the ability to remove VAT on heating fuel and electricity to help old people heat and light their homes in winter and reduce fuel poverty.

Again, not possible under European law and no proposal on the table to do so, as far as I am aware.

Is that 'tangible' enough?