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Originally posted by FMFNever having been a Muslim, nor to Indonesia, nor of having more than one wife, ill take your word for it. The thread was started, tongue in cheek, (you of course are free to evaluate it differently), to extol the virtues of eastern cultural aspects which have a bearing on a martial relationship. You are of course free to put forth the case for western cultural aspects, you may wish to incorporate cheerleaders to help you with your effort, for purely moral support of course.
That is exactly what I am doing. I am evaluating your comments, private revelations and assertions, made on this public forum. Presumably you sought reactions from people seeing as you chose to start a thread. Your remarks about women from the "East" and "West" remind me of the kinds of things many proudly chauvinist Muslim men here in Indonesia say about their gnorant generalizations. Just saying. This seemed the right thread to say it, that's all.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYour whole demeanour and rather naive pronouncements on this thread would get you a pat on the back from Indonesian misogynists. Your misogyny is certainly not especially malignant, relatively speaking - but misogyny it is, nevertheless. Plenty of it in the "West". And plenty of it in the "East" too.
Never having been a Muslim, nor to Indonesia, nor of having more than one wife, ill take your word for it.
You say you "travelled east to avoid [Western women] and married a beautiful Punjabi girl" and yet you seem to have certain things in common with the chauvinist men that dominate so much of the culture and sexual politics in the "East" including where Punjabi "girls" come from.
Your well-meaning misogyny - complete with your I-saved-her-from-poverty-now-she-serves-me-well thing, so common among smitten single western tourists visiting south east Asia - seems to be so firmly internalized that it may be virtually impossible to discuss it with you. There is plenty of evidence on this thread that indicates that this is so.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWas your failure to understand the concepts of emancipation and gender equality, and their impact on culture, and specifically divorce, also "tongue in cheek" and therefore feigned?
The thread was started, tongue in cheek, (you of course are free to evaluate it differently), to extol the virtues of eastern cultural aspects which have a bearing on a martial relationship.
Originally posted by FMFFirstly i did not save my wife from poverty, your remarks are reflective of a kind of tabloid style journalism, baseless and used with the intent to produce an emotive response. She had a bachelors degree in library science and was doing quite well, thank-you very much.
Your whole demeanour and rather naive pronouncements on this thread would get you a pat on the back from Indonesian misogynists. Your misogyny is certainly not especially malignant, relatively speaking - but misogyny it is, nevertheless. Plenty of it in the "West". And plenty of it in the "East" too.
You say you "travelled east to avoid [Western women] and m ...[text shortened]... t with you. There is plenty of evidence on this thread that indicates that this is so.
Secondly i resent the term misogynist, for nowhere have i expressed a hatred for women in any shape or form, again your attempts to do so are sensationalising an issue and are quite frankly defamatory, although you term it naive.
Lastly for your information i was not a tourist either, i was living and working in the country, making your post a rather haphazard attempt to pin terms and evaluations which simply have no basis in any reality other than which is conceived in your own mind. But its your reality and you are entitled to it.
I crow as a cockerel does upon you're post, for if indeed, you had perceived at the very outset that all, men verses women, and all women verses women threads are bound by their very nature to be gross generalisation, you would not be attempting to conjure these assertions on the basis of an innocent posts on an internet forum, which is, in effect, nothing more than a room full of mirrors.
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Originally posted by FMFNo these were serious points thrown up from the tumult of the forum floor. I did not fail to understand them, i simply disagreed with them, although not entirely, perhaps you can tell the difference?
Was your failure to understand the concepts of emancipation and gender equality, and their impact on culture, and specifically divorce, also "tongue in cheek" and therefore feigned?
Indeed i even substantiated my point with personal testimony of couples, who although born in the east, are presently living and working in the west. If so called emancipation and equality have such a bearing, then why, even among these persons, living now in the west, is divorce so low compared to their western counterparts, leading me to the inevitable conclusion, that its a cultural phenomena. Not only this, but my observations have led me to believe that it may also be a generation thing as well.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, but what about using "I" instead of "i". 😛
Firstly i did not save my wife from poverty, your remarks are reflective of a kind of tabloid style journalism, baseless and used with the intent to produce an emotive response. She had a bachelors degree in library science and was doing quite well, thank-you very much.
Secondly i resent the term misogynist, for nowhere have i expressed a hatred ...[text shortened]... cent posts on an internet forum, which is, in effect, nothing more than a room full of mirrors.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLucky for her you came along, is that what you mean? Her "dreams" ["...like (the one about her) growing up in her (own) culture"] were somehow superseded by yours, which in part involved "travell(ing) east to avoid [Western women]"?
Do i think she was encouraged to follow her dreams, you mean like growing up in her culture. Well she was so poor that she spent the formative years of her life trying to survive. When i mean poor, i mean, dirt poor, washing clothes in a river on a large stone, trying to find firewood to cook with etc.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell then, so you resent it. As I said, internalized misogyny - even of the not-particularly-malignant kind, is not something that the misogynists themselves usually recognize. You are clearly a case in point.
i resent the term misogynist, for nowhere have i expressed a hatred for women in any shape or form, again your attempts to do so are sensationalising an issue and are quite frankly defamatory, although you term it naive.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't think the other readers need any more information to make up their own minds, the point you made has been addressed.
i dont keep a list, its an internet forum, as far as i can gauge you have contributed nothing but personal remarks and unsubstantiated opinions, more reflective of you than of me, but if that's what rocks your socks, then so be it. Just one point, though, such categorising persons as types, to fit them neatly into ones preconceived ideas, as you jus ...[text shortened]... o you, an open mind, or one geared to prejudice, just a thought, try not to take it personally.
I will help you out with what I have contributed, balance.
A clever and passionate women from any part of the world and from any background will do what she feels is right at the right time, which will probably force a few saps to look farther a field and end up drawing the wrong conclusion.
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Originally posted by FMFNo lucky for me, that's what i was trying to tell you at the outset, but you would not believe it! instead you have contrived stories of misogyny, which could not be further from the truth, because i genuinely think women are amazing.
Lucky for her you came along, is that what you mean? Her "dreams" ["...like (the one about her) growing up in her (own) culture"] were somehow superseded by yours, which in part involved "travell(ing) east to avoid [Western women]"?
Originally posted by Woodgieso you can read minds as well, tell me, what am i thinking at present. . . . .
I don't think the other readers need any more information to make up their own minds, the point you made has been addressed.
I will help you out with what I have contributed, balance.
A clever and passionate women from any part of the world and from any background will do what she feels is right at the right time, which will probably force a few saps to look farther a field and end up drawing the wrong conclusion.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI didn't say you were a tourist. I merely pointed out that your little quiver of shabby generalizations about "Eastern girls v Western girls" has a lot in common with many smitten single male western tourists seeking a mate in the part of the "East" I live in.
Lastly for your information i was not a tourist either, i was living and working in the country...
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI have "contrived" nothing. I count at least six posters on this thread who apparently have been evaluating your posts in more or less the same way as me. You think we are all PM-ing each other to coordinate and contrive our common view?
...you have contrived stories of misogyny, which could not be further from the truth...