Happy 4th of July

Originally posted by Sahuaro
It's not just that no book has been found. I immediately found two sources (there are more) who declare that (a) two quotes from different people were combined into one quote, and (b) Sir Alex Fraser Tytler didn't write either one. They are attributed to a number of other people.

Since the governmental models we have today were fledgling when this guy w ...[text shortened]... Where have you seen this cycle happen in a civilization? Why do you believe it is inevitable?

Please see my reply to HandyAndy moments ago. You're well read; I appreciate the erudition you bring to this forum.

Note: Especially "The Seven Signs of a Falling Nation" (and the Roman Empire's decline relative to ours today).

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"Seven Signs of A Falling Nation"

http://realtruth.org/articles/070831-002-ssoafn.html

"Societal Collapse"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse

"History of Europe"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Europe

Thanks for your opinion.[/b]

Which of them asserts that the fatal sequence is a principle of democratic government?

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Which of them asserts that the fatal sequence is a principle of democratic government?

Human beings are born free; only governments with an imbalance of power take that freedom away immediately or gradually. Rome fell gradually. Great Britain and the United States of America have declined since World War II.

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Which of them asserts that the fatal sequence is a principle of democratic government?

Please make the time to read these site texts thoughtfully.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Please make the time to read these site texts thoughtfully.

I will, Bobby, and I assume you have as well. Which of your sources asserts that the fatal sequence
is a principle of democratic government? We can agree that civilizations rise and fall, but you singled
out democracy as a particular candidate for collapse. Please point me to the source.

Originally posted by ChessPraxis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9KZ3jgbbmI

Wonderful

Originally posted by HandyAndy
I will, Bobby, and I assume you have as well. Which of your sources asserts that the fatal sequence
is a principle of democratic government? We can agree that civilizations rise and fall, but you singled
out democracy as a particular candidate for collapse. Please point me to the source.

All three. The texts are too lengthy to post.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
All three. The texts are too lengthy to post.

Thanks for the tip about reading thoughtfully, Bobby. It makes so much difference. By the way,
I can't find any reference to the fatal sequence being a principle of democratic government, even
remotely. Where did you find it? At least give me a chapter heading or some other signpost.

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Thanks for the tip about reading thoughtfully, Bobby. It makes so much difference. By the way,
I can't find any reference to the fatal sequence being a principle of democratic government, even
remotely. Where did you find it? At least give me a chapter heading or some other signpost.

Ever read Edward Gibbons? Perhaps we're on different pages. Chatham, Massachusetts, has a big small town celebration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Aye lass, but the entire mantra 'no taxation without representation', itself was fraudulent because who really got representation after independence? Only if you were propertied, that left out women, native Americans, African Americans and most common men.

Oh come on... you can't be that naive. Do you believe women, native Americans, African Americans and most common men could have immediately had those rights overnight? A new form of governing was instituted that in relatively short course allowed these rights to become available to everyone. I doubt many of the framers of our constitution foresaw some of the changes this document would allow, but I also doubt many of them would be very surprised to see those changes if they were alive today.

Human nature being what it is it takes a lot of time for fundamental changes to take place, if those changes happen at all. The salient point here is that it did happen, because (as a free people) we had the flexibility to make those changes without too much government interference getting in the way. And as weird as this might sound we don't have that same kind of flexibility today... largely in part because we've had leaders who don't understand constitutional principles or worse, choose to dismiss and ignore those principles.


Okay, that's my 4th of July speech... now let's all get back to our usual monkey business.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Sounds like you have some kind of chip on your shoulder about something.

C'mon, let's hear it.

It's an historical fact. The way many of our fellow Americans talk you might think our way of life will last forever. Past history does not confirm this, but we can presume we are the exception to historical precedence and will not be following the same pattern... actually, we are free to believe all sorts of unrealistic crap, so why not believe that as well? lol

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Ever read Edward Gibbons? Perhaps we're on different pages. Chatham, Massachusetts, has a big small town celebration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire

Just as I thought, Bobby. You're talking through your hat again. It's especially sad that you picked
today, July 4th, to badmouth democracy and tarnish it with misinformation. But along with your right
to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, you also have the right to be ungrateful and stupid.

Originally posted by lemon lime
It's an historical fact. The way many of our fellow Americans talk you might think our way of life will last forever. Past history does not confirm this, but we can presume we are the exception to historical precedence and will not be following the same pattern... actually, we are free to believe all sorts of unrealistic crap, so why not believe that as well? lol

I think you should move to Mexico, just to be on the safe side.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Seven Signs of A Falling Nation"

http://realtruth.org/articles/070831-002-ssoafn.html

I note that your chief source, Real Truth magazine, is sponsored by The Restored Church of God.

Any legitimate historians in that crowd? I didn't think so.