bear, you have inspired me to post some items from the past.
i do so because some people laughed at them (therefore they qualify here) even though i was so serious (and after that they laughed at me).
but, we physics people are forgiving beings as demonstrated by the following 2 posts which deal with
1. the chemical a salt (confused conundrums by the chemists)
2. the big mathattack (malicious manipulations by the mathematicians)
on physics.
i will not belabore their desperate doings - for those so inclined these sorry and sordid details are available for public scrutiny in the physics is phirst thread from 0304.
in friendship,
prad
let us deal with the chemical a salt
the perpetraitor of this attack insisted that chemistry came before physics via alchemy - and wanted me to look it up if i didn't believe him. so because i am a fair individual i went to google and typed up "did chemistry come before physics via alchemy". not surprisingly there were no documents at all making it highly likely that either the answer is negative or that some sinister being has deleted all pages supporting the statement (a very implausible idea considering the security the internet offers). i have tried to look it up so my conscience is clear and can now proceed to tell the real story.
it is true that alchemy was the predecessor of chemistry. it is true that it was an early science though most references will tell you it started around the 1400s or so, its roots were probably much older and appeared in many different countries too (for example indian alchemists existed in the 7th century and the chinese alchemist ge hong existed in the 4th century).
be that as it may, what i will tell you is how alchemy transmuted into chemistry with the help of physics. this will be a rather occidental version of the story so please orient yourselves accordingly.
the ancient greek empedocles (well he wasn't really that old) established in 430 bc four elements earth, air, water and fire. (this was not the birth of chemistry just because the word element is used!) it was believed that everything else was made from these though aristotle added a fifth aether which haunted humanity right into the 20th century. anyway, so the alchemists set to work trying to make gold (and some other stuff) primarily because they thought they could get rich. well! it wasn't that simple was it? things didn't quite work out and so some tried dishonest things like creating impure mixtures of gold. fortunately, the brilliant physicist archimedes foiled one of these attempts while taking a bath. so elated was he that he ran out into the streets where he met people who had not taken a bath and quite justifiably started shouting eureka at them.
anyway, as alchemy developed in later centuries, it was reasoned that any substance could be changed into another by merely combining things in the right proportion. again the primary effort was to produce gold, but in that unsuccessful attempt many other useful elements were found. however, the unsuccessful and unscrupulous alchemists tried to fool people into thinking that all that glitters was gold - hence fools gold - and their profession fell into disrepute. so the good ones who suddenly had all these other elements in hand decided to change their name to chemists (removing anyone with the name of allan or albert from their ranks) and their science to chemistry (so that people would think there was something mysterious about them).
one of the first of these new chemists was robert boyle, who in 1661 published a journal called the sceptical chymist, because he was sceptical about being a chemist (hence the unusual spelling), since he figured he should be a physicist because he had discovered boyle's law of gases which of course had nothing to do with chemistry at the time.
within a couple of centuries physicists had worked out some of the principles of atomic theory and so that gave the chemists something to do with all the elements they kept on discovering. so the italian chemist avogadro created a large number that proved to be useful (though it irked the mathematicians who liked to keep numbers to themselves - more on this in the next post though) and mendeleev was brought in from russia periodically to help organize the elements onto a table. now the biggest problem the chemists faced though was finding names for all these elements. so they started naming them after their own countries scandium Sc and germanium Ge, after gases such as oxygen O and hydrogen H, and then just to confuse everyone they started doing weird things like calling sodium Na and gold Au and mercury Hg and all kinds of stuff like that!
there was still the problem of identifying further information about the elements such as atomic numbers and things so several physicists such as roentgen, barkla, von laue and the braggs used xrays to help determine crystaline structures. characteristic xrays of atoms were later used to help pin down the element to mendeleev's table by their atomic number - so hydrogen was given the number 1, and helium the number 2 etc. unfortunately, the table had become so crowded that the chemists actually lost four elements numbers 43, 61, 85 and 87. some chemists looked around and claimed they had found these elements but since no one else could find them, for a while, they remained lost.
when the chemists had come to the end of collecting and losing elements, physics opened a whole new door for them - that of radioactive elements. marie sklodowska a polish chemist married pierre curie and became a physicist and the two of them proceeded to discover radioactivity. radioactive elements consist of large atoms (sometimes called fatoms) that transmute into other smaller elements. for example uranium U could break down into ura and nium, but it doesn't because those elements don't exist so instead it breaks down into other elements that do exist because it was so fat to begin with. those other elements wind up being something like Sr and Xe which have nothing to do with U, but that's because of the weird way they were all named in the first place, isn't it!
anyway, by looking in all the debris produced by some of these fatoms chemists were able to find those lost elements which they promptly proceeded to name anyway they felt like. the final element of the group to be discovered was not 87, because that would be too rational. instead, they discovered 61 last and called it promethium after the greek chemist prometheus who had stolen fire for mankind. well they thought he was a chemist because of the fire thing since chemists use fire in their bunsen burners, but really he was a physicist because he invented astronomy. fortunately, he was eventually freed by the physicist hercules who performed 12 physical tasks all involving physics (occasionally called labors, because they were done in the laboratory of the universe).
(after the periodic table was filled up the chemists tried looking for new territory by starting quantum chemistry, but it was too late since the physicists already had quantum physics. however, in a typically noble gesture, the physicists shared a few nuclei because otherwise much grant money would be taken back.)
so there wraps up the development of chemistry from the alchemistic beginnings. as you see, the physicists did eventually help realize the alchemists' dream of transmuting elements, but not in the way they wanted so they weren't very happy and took to writing their stuff on webpages instead.
in friendship,
prad
now the oxford dictionary defines mathematics as "abstract science which investigates deductively the conclusions implicit in the elementary conceptions of spatial and numerical relations". we will not accept that definition simply because then the history of math cannot possibly go back further than Thales 600 bc (d smith - history of mathematics - p2) and we couldn't have any phun.
so let us start in the early days when essentially there were only a few numbers 1 was one of them. after 1 there may have been 2. and everything else was many, because there wasn't any need for other numbers. gradually though the mathematicians wanted more. the physicists who were watching this development for quite sometime did not object them this desire - after all, they had the whole universe to play with - but little did they know what was in store.
the overwhelming greed for numbers led to the acquisition of the whole numbers first because they were the most handy. there were quite a lot of them, but it wasn't enough so the conquests continued in barbaric fashion as numbers were fractured into pieces to produce fractions (they were sometimes called decimals because someone wanted to make a point). how the poor fractions were able to remain rational throughout it all is a good question, but many decimals went totally irrational as a result of what they witnessed. the numbers were undergoing a terrible ordeal and developed multiple personalities as a result of the stress - some became very negative, for others the change was quite complex. fortunately, the number zero appeared taking a leadership role and stabilized the system somewhat.
the mathematicians' lust however was not satisfied. in fact, they became concerned that they would soon run out of numbers (you see, infinity was not enough for them) and began raiding the languages. first they took an x and forced it to be anything they felt like, and then the y followed and more (the one good consequence of this aggression was that algebra was born). if this wasn't bad enough they raided the greek alphabet and stole an alpha, then a beta and anything else they could usurp. the noble physicists couldn't just stand by and watch this mayhem taking place so they kindly gave the mathematicians a useful place to put the letters. for instance, the d's were often used for distance, and the t's were used for time, and F for force. but because there was considerable indecision amongst the mathematicians certain letters wound up in strange places - like p for momentum. well actually it wasn't a problem initially because momentum was originally pmomentum with the 'silent p' as in psychology, or pseudopod, but the physicists didn't want to confuse everyone like the psychologists and biologists and decided to drop the p. (i should point out here that the biologists didn't take too kindly to the dropping of the unnecessary p in pmomentum, even though it wasn't their field, and went around taunting the physicists by calling them physicysts, physicysts rather childishly stressing the cysts implying they were undesirable growths.) because the greek alphabet had also been ravaged, the physicists even went as far as creating a whole new field, high energy physics, to help place some of those letters in the form of muons, pions, lambdas, sigmas and etceteras.
of course, not satisfied yet, even the roman system was attacked as mathematicians overworked certain letters excessively. for instance, take the letter I - it was actually used 3 times III to represent the number 3! as a result the roman system was severely impacted and certain letters like G, J, U, W, X, Y just disappeared. however, because they had a good army they tried to get some of the letters back from the greeks, but with only moderate success: the romans ran over greece and fell (understandably), but recovered everything except the J,U, and W. it really didn't do much good though, because their mathematics never progressed much beyond rudimentary multiplication as a result of the number systems that the mathematicians had left them, so when the visigoths descended upon them and started dividing up the roman empire they really didn't know what was happening.
now in all fairness, i must state that not all mathematics was this violent. there were many peaceful developments too. for example, the first methods for counting sheep were developed by a greek mathematician named eweclid. but he realized just in time that this activity was making him drowsy and so went on to develop the axes of geometry which were subsequently used by woodcutters not warriors. the techniques of counting sheep though are still used by people sometimes before bedtime, but especially in math classes.
now i won't go into the many other instances where the physicists had to help out the mathematicians (such as how newton had to invent the calculus, because the mathematicians just couldn't be bothered since they were busy arguing about some triviality or other - geewiz, he even had to write the principia mathematica for them) simply because they are too numerous and i can't remember them anyway.
please note that not all other fields reacted like the mathematicians - most actually worked with the physicists to create wonderful sciences. for instance, geologists who are of solid and stable character went on to create geophysics. the biologists (after that earlier bit of silliness) saw the marvels of physics in life and created biophysics. astronomers who are stellar people created astrophysics. even a group of philosophers a long time ago, after they met a physicist (can't recall whom) developed metaphysics. the list goes on and on.
so where did some people get the naive idea that math is the foundation of physics? i think it is because of the very poetic and beautiful statement
"Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe."
which was made as a magnanimous gesture by the physicist Gallileo in the famous walt disney film "donald duck in mathemagic land". i know this to be true, because i saw that excellent film many times. perhaps you have seen it as well.
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by pradtf
fortunately, the number zero appeared taking a leadership role and stabilized the system somewhat.
"One might think that once a place-value number system came into existence then the 0 as a empty place indicator is a necessary idea, yet the Babylonians had a place-value number system without this feature for over 1000 years. Moreover there is absolutely no evidence that the Babylonians felt that there was any problem with the ambiguity which existed. Remarkably, original texts survive from the era of Babylonian mathematics. The Babylonians wrote on tablets of unbaked clay, using cuneiform writing. The symbols were pressed into soft clay tablets with the slanted edge of a stylus and so had a wedge-shaped appearance (and hence the name cuneiform). Many tablets from around 1700 BC survive and we can read the original texts. Of course their notation for numbers was quite different from ours (and not based on 10 but on 60) but to translate into our notation they would not distinguish between 2106 and 216 (the context would have to show which was intended). It was not until around 400 BC that the Babylonians put two wedge symbols into the place where we would put zero to indicate which was meant, 216 or 21 '' 6."
More of the history on zero you find at http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Zero.html
To return to the origin of this thread, a few questions.
EVER WONDER...
...why you don't ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"?
...why "abbreviated" is such a long word?
...why doctors call what they do "practice"?
...why you have to click on "Start" to stop Windows 98?
...why lemon juice is made with artificial flavor, while dishwashing liquid is made with real lemons?
...why the man who invests all your money is called a broker?
...why Noah didn't swat those two mosquitoes?
...why sheep don't shrink when it rains?
...why they are called apartments when they are all stuck together?
...if con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
Fjord.
P.S. There are 10 types of people in the world
- those who understand binary and those who don't. -
Originally posted by fjordAh, but there are 11 kinds of people...those who can count in binary and those who can't 😛.
"One might think that once a place-value number system came into existence then the 0 as a empty place indicator is a necessary idea, yet the Babylonians had a place-value number system without this feature for over 1000 years. Moreover there is absolutely no evidence that the Babylonians felt that there was any problem with the ambiguity which existed. R ...[text shortened]... ere are 10 types of people in the world
- those who understand binary and those who don't. -
Originally posted by pradtf
bear, you have inspired me to post some items from the past.
i do so because some people laughed at them (therefore they qualify here) even though i was so serious (and after that they laughed at me).
but, we physics people are forgiving beings as demonstrated by the following 2 posts which deal with
1. the chemical a salt (confused conundrums by ...[text shortened]... ts)
2. the big mathattack (malicious manipulations by the mathematicians)
on physics.
prad
Hi prad,
I found both stories funny and enterteining. 🙂
Thanks!
Michael (aka LittleBear)
Bargain Cruise
One day this Swedish guy walks into a dingy little storefront travel agency, holds up a page out of a newspaper, and says: "You say in this ad that you have a voonderful luxury cruise for only $69.95. I want to go on this voonderful luxury cruise."
The guy behind the counter says "Sure. Do you have the $69.95 in cash?" "I sure do," says the Swede, plunking the money down on the counter. At that point, two big thugs leap out of a closet, whack the Swede over the head, drag his unconscious body out the back door, stuff him in a barrel and drop the barrel into a river that flows past.
A few moments later, a Norwegian guy walks into the same dingy
storefront travel agency, holds up the newspaper ad and says: "I vant to go on this $69.96 voonderful luxury cruise."
The guy behind the counter says: "Sure, you got the fare in cash?" "Ya, you betcha," says the Norwegian, slapping the money on the counter. Again, the two big thugs leap out, pound him on the head, drag his limp form out the back door, shove him in a barrel and drop it in the river.
After a while, the Swede and the Norwegian regain consciousness, and they find out that their barrels are bobbing along together.
The Norwegian says: "Good Afternoon. Tell me, do you happen to know if they serve dinner on this cruise?" The Swede shakes his head and says: "No, I don't think so. At least they didn't last year."
Michael
(Thanks SirLoseALot! 😵 )
Incredible but true...
Interpretations of nature from junior high, high school, and college test
papers and essays submitted to science and health teachers (spelling errors preserved)....
"When you breath, you inspire. When you do not breath, you expire."
"H2O is hot water, and CO2 is cold water"
"To collect fumes of sulphur, hold a deacon over a flame in a test tube"
"When you smell an oderless gas, it is probably carbon monoxide"
"Water is composed of two gins, Oxygin and Hydrogin. Oxygin is pure gin.
Hydrogin is gin and water." <if only...>
"Three kinds of blood vessels are arteries, vanes and caterpillars."
"Blood flows down one leg and up the other."
"Respiration is composed of two acts, first inspiration, and then expectoration."
"The moon is a planet just like the earth, only it is even deader."
"Artifical insemination is when the farmer does it to the cow instead of the bull."
"Dew is formed on leaves when the sun shines down on them and makes them perspire."
"A super-saturated solution is one that holds more than it can hold."
"Mushrooms always grow in damp places and so they look like umbrellas."
"The body consists of three parts - the brainium, the borax and the abominable cavity. The brainium contains the brain, the borax contains the heart and lungs, and the abominable cavity contains the bowls, of which there are five - a, e, i, o, and u."
"The pistol of a flower is its only protections agenst insects."
"The alimentary canal is located in the northern part of Indiana."
"The skeleton is what is left after the insides have been taken out and the outsides have ben taken off. The purpose of the skeleton is something to hitch meat to."
"A permanent set of teeth consists of eight canines, eight cuspids, two molars, and eight cuspidors."
"The tides are a fight between the Earth and moon. All water tends towards the moon, because there is no water in the moon, and nature abhors a vacuum. I forget where the sun joins in this fight."
"A fossil is an extinct animal. The older it is, the more extinct it is."
"Germinate: To become a naturalized German."
"Liter: A nest of young puppies."
"Magnet: Something you find crawling all over a dead cat."
"Momentum: What you give a person when they are going away."
"Planet: A body of Earth surrounded by sky."
"Rhubarb: A kind of celery gone bloodshot."
"Vacumm: A large, empty space where the pope lives."
"Before giving a blood transfusion, find out if the blood is affirmative or negative."
"To remove dust from the eye, pull the eye down over the nose."
"For a nosebleed: Put the nose much lower then the body until the heart stops."
"For drowning: Climb on top of the person and move up and down to make artifical perspiration."
"For fainting: Rub the person's chest or, if a lady, rub her arm above the hand instead. Or put the head between the knees of the nearest medical doctor."
"For dog bite: put the dog away for sevral days. If he has not recovered, then kill it."
"For asphyxiation: Apply artificial respiration until the patient is dead."
"For head cold: use an agonizer to spray the nose untill it drops in your throat."
"To keep milk from turning sour: Keep it in the cow."
😀😀
Originally posted by LittleBearYou deserve a dozen pots o'hunny🙂
(Thanks SirLoseALot! 😵 )
Incredible but true...
Interpretations of nature from junior high, high school, and college test
papers and essays submitted to science and health teachers (spelling errors preserved)....
"When you breath, you inspire. When you do not breath, you expire."
"H2O is hot water, and CO2 is cold water"
"To c ...[text shortened]... s in your throat."
"To keep milk from turning sour: Keep it in the cow."
😀😀
What happens when your room gets super-saturated with smiles?
Thanks LittleBear
Fjord