Originally posted by karnachzUnfortunately karnachz and Marina, you don't seem to have put a lot of thought into how cheat detecting works.
I don't actually see how there's any "grey area" involved here. Either someone used engines to cheat, or they didn't. If they did, then this is cheating and it's an offence that warrants banning.
I've never met or heard of Exy before this thread, but it sounds like he's a nice enough guy and it's unfortunate that he got banned. But the fact rem ...[text shortened]... w people banned when their actions warrant it than see the deterrence against cheating weakened.
The mods don't have a speed gun telling them that this user was doing 50 in a 30 zone. That would be inarguable evidence.
There is a "grey area" involved here. The mods only have a bunch of patterns that they can base some guess work off. "Hey, look. He matched an engine here on this move after clicking on "get pgn". We'll count that as an engine match. Oh, this move here is a 2 point blunder. Ok, we'll count that as one of his own moves, and use it as evidence that he's a patzer without the engine."
The only way the mod team can work (without having a camera in the suspects room) is through glorified guesswork. You people seem to forget that EVERYBODY has accepted that there will never be 100% proof in the game modding.
Marina and karnachz, YOU could be booted just as easily as Exy. Now honestly, how would that make you feel? To read about all the people you used to think were friendly, suddenly ripping into you for being an engine user, even though you know that you're not.
As I said before, the only reasonable way the mod team could have gotten anyway close to 100% would have been if he continually matched up in the endgame, because the majority of his play doesn't look a bit like an engine. As I also said before, I see no way that the mod team would be benefitting cheaters if they released a statement like "Exy was banned for using an engine in his endgames". Surely, that would only deter engine users who switch on only when they feel they should have the game won in the endgame and would prefer not to take any chances.
Until I see a statement like that, I feel that any user on this site could disappear into the night at any time.
D
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Originally posted by bbarrI still stand by the fact that I didn't say that cheating accusations are worse now than before. How you interpret my statement is up to you, but please don't put words in my mouth.
It seems that the administrators' efforts to reign in cheating accusations in the forums have been as successful as dubya's attempts to make the world a safer place.
For the record, I've just gone through the forums and found 18 unmodded cheating accusations posted in the last 2 days. Going back a week, and I found 25 cheating accusations. If I recall correctly, you might have to help me out here bbarr, all of CACKHEAD's accusations were modded pretty much immediately, as were that recently returned wacko Mateulose' accusations against IM, as were the accusations posted by the phantom accuser.
Now tell me, why do you think there is a change of policy as regards the ban on cheating accusations after the introduction of the game mods, seeing as the game mods were supposedly introduced in the first place to stop accusations in the forums.
D
There are a lot of hungry people out there who would like to see this site disintegrate
and demolished. Regardless of the fact that some use cheat engines or whatever
means to win without honour or true pride, most of us I believe are here to have fun,
relax and enjoy the great game that Chess is.
I do agree though, something ought to be done for the Forum.. Its as boring and
dull as the grey skies on a Sunday morning.. Just like this morning.
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Originally posted by RagnorakWell put Rag'..
The only way the mod team can work (without having a camera in the suspects room) is through glorified guesswork. You people seem to forget that EVERYBODY has accepted that there will never be 100% proof in the game modding.
Marina and karnachz, YOU could be booted just as easily as Exy. Now honestly, how would that make you feel? To read about al ...[text shortened]... nt like that, I feel that any user on this site could disappear into the night at any time.
D
One final point about this site and what's going on. A simple statement on Exy along Rag's suggestions or a personal reply to a query would have calmed me and few other people down over this issue. But nothing. If he cheated, he cheated... but just give us a little detail (or the politeness of a reply) as it just seems like an opinion along Ragnorak's description.
However, my real point for the final post. As I mentioned my sub's were up very soon. Site admin (be it automated or not) still managed to send me a resubscription request whilst ignoring my query. I think that says alot about things here at present.
Pineapple.. thanks for the message. I've PM'd you in response. Good luck. Off to pleasant climes with over the table games.
For the final, final time... Toodle-pip :-)
Originally posted by RagnorakIf you don't alert you ride with Hitler.
I still stand by the fact that I didn't say that cheating accusations are worse now than before. How you interpret my statement is up to you, but please don't put words in my mouth.
For the record, I've just gone through the forums and found 18 unmodded cheating accusations posted in the last 2 days. Going back a week, and I found 25 cheating accusa ...[text shortened]... game mods were supposedly introduced in the first place to stop accusations in the forums.
D
Or some other catchy poster line.
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Originally posted by RagnorakWow, i so nearly missed this. Yes you're right, i could just as easily be accused of cheating, my play is so damn flawless that obviously sooner or later i HAVE to be accused of cheating. 😛
Unfortunately karnachz and Marina, you don't seem to have put a lot of thought into how cheat detecting works.
The mods don't have a speed gun telling them that this user was doing 50 in a 30 zone. That would be inarguable evidence.
There is a "grey area" involved here. The mods only have a bunch of patterns that they can base some guess work of ...[text shortened]... nt like that, I feel that any user on this site could disappear into the night at any time.
D
Seriously though, i do take your point. I didn't suspect Exy in the slightest. I had always known him to be a 1700-2000 rated player, the great fluctuations i had put down to game load. I never played him though, so i can't really comment on his play. I did however play Nyxie, but i'm not going to talk about her any more.
As far as i'm aware, i haven't ripped into Exy. I have stated that the game mods should be given a break, that is all. They are giving up their chess time to sift through hundreds of games to detect cheats instead, and should be respected for it! I can only imagine how much time they must put into this.
As for getting suspected myself, my game appears to have improved a shade recently. I'm sitting on my highest ever rating as we speak. However, i do happen to analyse my own games afterwards. I really don't match up all that much, most of what i play is generally just confusing at best and ultimately unsound in ways engines find easy to spot but perhaps not humans (not
Originally posted by marinakatombI respect what the game mods are trying to do as well, and appreciate the fact that they are volunteering an awful lot of their free time in trying to do their job. My gripe isn't with them individually. My gripe is that I think their job is an impossible one.
I have stated that the game mods should be given a break, that is all. They are giving up their chess time to sift through hundreds of games to detect cheats instead, and should be respected for it! I can only imagine how much time they must put into this.
As for getting suspected myself, my game appears to have improved a shade recently. I'm sittin ...[text shortened]... ng at best and ultimately unsound in ways engines find easy to spot but perhaps not humans (not
You don't match up too much? Neither did Exy. Analysing his games with crafty (closest match) shows that he frequently makes non optimal moves.
Exy's play was also confusing and unsound, especially considering the number of mistakes and blunders he made.
As I said Marina, you could be next.
D
Keep in mind, it's a two way street. Many stupid potty mouthed posters have accused me of creating "rash cheating accusations", when it's usually just analyzing odd graphs and making no claims like person A is sure cheat, person B isn't a cheat, etc.
HOWEVER, these SAME potty mouthed posters have made CLEAR character attacks by saying I CHEAT without even providing any evidence at all other then, "you just entered the site with a high rating!" Sheesh, I hope a GM never visits this site for the first time, everyone will be sure to call him a cheat. I'm not saying new players with macho starting ratings shouldn't be watched, but they shouldn't be declared auto cheats!
And besides, from what I've heard, I've had up to 5 baseless cheating accusations posted against me to the game mods, mainly off NOOB 1300-1500 immature players I NEVER PLAYED. I played so few games, there isn't much to analyze. I'm sure if I did cheat those few games and with all the complaints, the mods would have me tossed ASAP. I'm sure the mods already checked and determined I don't cheat. So yes, the mods are doing their job well.
I'm sure this post will generate even more heat, people just need to give up with their false causes.
Originally posted by UmalakasSelf-important much?
Keep in mind, it's a two way street. Many stupid potty mouthed posters have accused me of creating "rash cheating accusations", when it's usually just analyzing odd graphs and making no claims like person A is sure cheat, person B isn't a cheat, etc.
HOWEVER, these SAME potty mouthed posters have made CLEAR character attacks by saying I CHEAT witho ...[text shortened]... ure this post will generate even more heat, people just need to give up with their false causes.
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Originally posted by GatecrasherI've obviously gotten under your skin, but I meant you no disrespect to you or any of the game mods. I felt the need to go after the obvious cheaters ASAP.
Is that what being a game mod means to you, Arrakis? Becoming a hero? Maybe you are missing the point entirely...[/b]
You want me to submit games that are obvious cheaters? Sure, I'll be glad to do that. I just figured you guys already had your hands full.
Cheers
- Joined
- 03 Sep 03
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- 89331
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Originally posted by arrakisThat has to be perhaps the most obscene thing I have seen posted in regards to the Cheat Moderation concept.
~NOTE TO THE GAME MODS~
--snip--
BUST the people who are suspected of cheating and not well liked!"
--snip--
Once you've established your credibility you can go after the "nice guys".
I truly hope you didn't think that through...
--tmetzler