Originally posted by MoneyManMikeDon't you think the Copa America carries a lot more kudos than the Gold Cup?
Not really. The USA is playing with a younger, more inexperienced squad than what they usually use. And why not? The stakes in Copa America aren't that high for the USA since they already won the Gold Cup. I believe Bradley is using Copa America as an opportunity to give his younger players experience in a very competitive tournament.
Originally posted by SeitseI agree that they could carry on to be a good 2nd class team, but Esoteric is right - Concacaf is very low quality competition. As for the title of the thread (false hope), it depends on what they hope for. I don't think it can get any better than results so far - it's a big step up to the next level.
lmao š
No, seriously speaking, I like a lot how England plays and I do
consider them one of the big Europeans and notable worldwide.
But I do think Esoteric is harsh when speaking about Concacaf...
yes, Trinidad and Barbados may not be world powers, but the U.S.
and specially Mexico are very good 2nd class contenders in the world.
That they are ...[text shortened]...
independent of their good and consistent games, i.e. US v. Germany,
Mexico v. Argentina, etc.
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeYou're certainly right Mike, Bradley has said he will play the younger players. I think this is part of a general youth movement aimed toward the future.
Not really. The USA is playing with a younger, more inexperienced squad than what they usually use. And why not? The stakes in Copa America aren't that high for the USA since they already won the Gold Cup. I believe Bradley is using Copa America as an opportunity to give his younger players experience in a very competitive tournament.
Clearly he is keeping his eye on the big prize in 2010.
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeIt definitely is more prestigious than the Gold Cup, but the urgency isn't there for team USA since they can't represent CONMEBOL in the Confederation's Cup. And since they already won the Gold Cup, why not give Donovan and crew a rest and get experience for the younger players?
Don't you think the Copa America carries a lot more kudos than the Gold Cup?
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeThe Gold Cup victory qualifies us for the confederation cup, right?
It definitely is more prestigious than the Gold Cup, but the urgency isn't there for team USA since they can't represent CONMEBOL in the Confederation's Cup. And since they already won the Gold Cup, why not give Donovan and crew a rest and get experience for the younger players?
It's not like we need to qualify twice.
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeYup, but I disagree with Esoteric in that USA and Mexico
I agree that they could carry on to be a good 2nd class team, but Esoteric is right - Concacaf is very low quality competition. As for the title of the thread (false hope), it depends on what they hope for. I don't think it can get any better than results so far - it's a big step up to the next level.
have high hopes because they win
against 3rd class teams... au contraire, both of them have
demonstrated their quality playing against the big ones.
If qualifying and region tourneys are easy for them, that's a different
stuff... concacaf is like that.
I know the Fifa rankings mean crap, but they have something, and
both teams are amongst the best 10 in the planet... if I remember
correctly.
1 edit
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeIt was 'perform on an elite stage' not just the World Cup.
The stats show England are the 5th most successful team in World Cup history:
http://www.rdasilva.demon.co.uk/football/wc/wc_stat.html
So it's not true that we 'consistently fail to perform on the world stage'.
Try looking at a broader view of the English National team's performance:
http://tinyurl.com/22v6hg
853 games - 480 wins (56% ), 165 losses (19% ) and 208 draws (25% ).
It's not bad, but it's hardly the 'World Class' performance you'd expect from the 5th best team in the world by your standards.
Take a look at our standing in Group E of the Euro 2008 qualifiers:
http://www.rdasilva.demon.co.uk/football/wc/wc_stat.html
We're behind the 29th, 58th and 47th ranked teams (from your WC source). Is this a good example of England performing well on the International stage?
Originally posted by Daemon Sin208 - man that's a lot of boring draws.
It was 'perform on an [b]elite stage' not just the World Cup.
Try looking at a broader view of the English National team's performance:
http://tinyurl.com/22v6hg
853 games - 480 wins (56% ), 165 losses (19% ) and 208 draws (25% ).
It's not bad, but it's hardly the 'World Class' performance you'd expect from the 5th best team in the world by ...[text shortened]... source). Is this a good example of England performing well on the International stage?[/b]
Those matches include friendlies though right? I think performances in the biggest competition (including the qualifying) give a more accurate view. That we're 5th in that table is largely due to playing a lot of games, but that only shows the success we've had in qualifying. Yes we're doing pants at the moment but my issue was with the statement we 'consistently fail to perform'.
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeMaybe 'consistently fail to perform' is to much of a generalisation then.
208 - man that's a lot of boring draws.
Those matches include friendlies though right? I think performances in the biggest competition (including the qualifying) give a more accurate view. That we're 5th in that table is largely due to playing a lot of games, but that only shows the success we've had in qualifying. Yes we're doing pants at the moment but my issue was with the statement we 'consistently fail to perform'.
I agree, our current form is pants and we have done well in the past but I still think England's recent performances on the International stage has been mediocre at best.
I ripped the table from the FA site and removed all the 'Friendlies' and 'Other' matches (no idea what the Other matches were) and it left us with a slight improvement on the previous stats:
363 games - 211 Wins (58% ), 59 Losses (16% ) and 92 Draws (25% )
1 edit
Let's look at England's less than stellar record some other ways:
World Cup wins: Tied for sixth best with France.
World Cup finals : Tied for 10th best with Sweden.
World Cup 3rd place of better: Tied for 12th best along with USA, Turkey, Austria, and numerous others.
World Cup final four: Tied for 9th best along with most of the former components of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and a host of others.
Originally posted by EsotericCanada would have beaten the US in the final if they hadn't got screwed by that off-side call in the semi final.
The USA beat 9 below average teams out of their last 10 wins and some fans seem to be getting ahead of themselves.
Personally I think they are still quite far from being a real world class team as they consistently fail to perform on a elite stage and should get trounced in the Copa America (if the South American teams field in their full strength squads).
Any thoughts to the otherwise?