@drewnogal saidMany many such examples like that all over the developed world. Developing [third world] nations have less of that and it can be argued that a rich modern country is now the worst place to bring up kids. They have a tendency to become spoilt, entitled, depressed and lacking in the drive necessary to become independent successful adults.
There’s a deranged, now deceased, young man currently highlighting the UK news for a mass shooting. He may have been the baby of a mother with severe depression where nobody noticed how he was suffering neglect?
@drewnogal saidall this is possible but if it came down to nature or nurture I am firmly in the nature camp.2 of my daughters adopted kids biological mother and father have been arrested for murdering a 2 day own baby....google barnsley baby murder ....both the adopted kids have reall problems anger issues.
There’s a deranged, now deceased, young man currently highlighting the UK news for a mass shooting. He may have been the baby of a mother with severe depression where nobody noticed how he was suffering neglect?
@badradger saidNot just genes. It's surprising how much effect an adverse environment can have even in the womb. Hanus and Mechthild Papousek did some good research showing the impact on circulation to the developing brain. It's easy to imagine such an early environment can't be important, but the earlier the impact on the developing brain the more likely to be hard wired in with long term impact. Even children adopted soon after birth have suffered the impact of adverse environment on development. I think people who adopt are given limited information about what they are getting in to and very limited support. It must have been very hard for your family.
all this is possible but if it came down to nature or nurture I am firmly in the nature camp.2 of my daughters adopted kids biological mother and father have been arrested for murdering a 2 day own baby....google barnsley baby murder ....both the adopted kids have reall problems anger issues.
@relentless-red saidthey were given little information about family problems but as they say the apple dosent fall far from the tree and that would fit all 4 adopted kids
Not just genes. It's surprising how much effect an adverse environment can have even in the womb. Hanus and Mechthild Papousek did some good research showing the impact on circulation to the developing brain. It's easy to imagine such an early environment can't be important, but the earlier the impact on the developing brain the more likely to be hard wired in with lon ...[text shortened]... t what they are getting in to and very limited support. It must have been very hard for your family.
@badradger saidI have to agree with you there.
they were given little information about family problems but as they say the apple dosent fall far from the tree and that would fit all 4 adopted kids
My daughter has 2 adopted kids.
She has a birthday party every year where all the couples she knows who adopted ,come along with their adopted children. Every one of those parents has a horror story to tell and many are at breaking point.
@the-gravedigger saidyeah they used to meet up with adoptee groups everyone had a horror story.
I have to agree with you there.
My daughter has 2 adopted kids.
She has a birthday party every year where all the couples she knows who adopted ,come along with their adopted children. Every one of those parents has a horror story to tell and many are at breaking point.
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@drewnogal saidNo idea to be honest, as I don’t have any. But I observe that children can be a great joy or a great heartache.
Are they worth the cost?
@drewnogal saidLife would definitely be easier and more fun without them.
Are they worth the cost?
Given the structure of modern society, I see no purpose in having kids.
It's the big life choice, and at least in 'advanced' human societies we do nowadays have a choice, and it's such an individual thing. When I was an idealistic 15 year old I decided that my species was destroying the planet, or at least the life that lived thereon (and look at it now....) and that I wasn't going to add to it. I met she who is most beloved at 17, who for her own reasons didn't want kids, so for us it was easy, and we've done things and ended up in a place in life that we wouldn't have done with kids around. On the other hand....The maternal (and I think to a lesser extent the paternal ) instinct is strong in some of us, and some of our friends were always going to reproduce, and would have felt 'unfulfilled' without children around. We love our nephews and nieces, and have been a big part of their lives, the handy thing being that you can always give them back. Have I ever wondered what our kids would have been like, and what life would have been like with children? Yep, but unfortunately we only get one go at this (as far as we know...), and we make our choices.
@Indonesia-Phil
It sounds like you and your partner chose the best life possible for yourselves and having heard so much about your adventures in setting up a life in Indonesia I do feel a bit of envy. Having kids meant a need for stability for my ex and myself. It can cause a lot of stress if one feels they are putting in more effort than the other. The list of tasks were endless when combined with a full time job. All to afford the things I felt they needed like new school uniforms, sports clothes and equipment for numerous privately paid sports activities, birthday parties, holidays for 4, computers and mobile phones, extra TV’s, a need for 2 cars to get them both here and there; the things that most average families seem to buy. It was exhausting though they did have a few opportunities to escape from the endless arguments as their parents relationship crumpled under the strain. And we were a couple who took 11 years to set up home together? My fault I believe! I was the driving force to start a family as my hormonal time clock was about to run out! Easier times now thankfully, we live a mile apart and recently spent a week together touring a bit of Scotland. We’re more like a brother and sister now, bound together forever through our wonderful sons. I’d never have wanted to miss out on THEM 🥰
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@drewnogal saidI created a new thread trying to sell kids but they deleted it, at 20k do you think they should be free?
The going rate for raising one was said to be £20K in 1996. That must be far higher now?
The intermittent worries around them reaching independence are something else! I’ve become very selfish and think, ‘I’d just like my life back now please’.
@drewnogal saidThere you go, you have two wonderful sons, I have a wonderful life in Indonesia, sounds like a draw to me! There are parallels, also, I think. I hope you enjoyed series 1 of FCTS, series 2 is written (another 26 episodes) and will be produced and aired in due course, and series 2 is about our first years living here, which were not entirely easy as you will hear, and we very nearly lost everything, apart from each other. Nothing good, it seems, comes without a fight, or without cost.
@Indonesia-Phil
It sounds like you and your partner chose the best life possible for yourselves and having heard so much about your adventures in setting up a life in Indonesia I do feel a bit of envy. Having kids meant a need for stability for my ex and myself. It can cause a lot of stress if one feels they are putting in more effort than the other. The list of tasks we ...[text shortened]... now, bound together forever through our wonderful sons. I’d never have wanted to miss out on THEM 🥰
By the way I love this crossover between RHP and BBBOO, I've made good friends this way, and a few (anonymous) enemies it seems, judging by the red thumbs that I seem to collect these days!
@indonesia-phil saidI’ve started to get offended if I don’t get a read thumb these days 🙂
There you go, you have two wonderful sons, I have a wonderful life in Indonesia, sounds like a draw to me! There are parallels, also, I think. I hope you enjoyed series 1 of FCTS, series 2 is written (another 26 episodes) and will be produced and aired in due course, and series 2 is about our first years living here, which were not entirely easy as you will hear, and w ...[text shortened]... and a few (anonymous) enemies it seems, judging by the red thumbs that I seem to collect these days!
I’ll look forward to hearing more of your story as I now have lots of gigs on my phone so can listen while walking the dog.