Torrent Site

Originally posted by Hindstein


It is so often that the real creativity and interest in the arts is that on the periphery and so there is usually little profit to be made - piracy [b]will eradicate this creativity and we will be left with the bilge that Studios think we like (as it is popular)

Right, rant over - I'm off to listen to Geraldine McQueen's new album.....[/b]

Cool, I just downloaded this the other day. Nice stuff!

Originally posted by jlilly
Cool, I just downloaded this the other day. Nice stuff!

🙄

Originally posted by Hindstein
I will put forward one final point in this - have you ever wondered why there are so many sequels of films released? Or why the bands created from talent contests get the most number 1s? Of course, it is the publishers, record labels and film studios looking to make money off a sure thing - you have to remember that what is popular is not necessarily good ...[text shortened]... this creativity and we will be left with the bilge that Studios think we like (as it is popular)

What?? I think the exact opposite will happen and I fail to see how it follows that piracy leads to the eradication of fringe creativity. If anything, the past 10 years have proven otherwise!!!! The underground movement in music of all genres is thriving and the amount of different bands and artists available to the public has increased significantly!

Originally posted by darvlay
What?? I think the exact opposite will happen and I fail to see how it follows that piracy leads to the eradication of fringe creativity. If anything, the past 10 years have proven otherwise!!!! The underground movement in music of all genres is thriving and the amount of different bands and artists available to the public has increased significantly!

Underground movements may be thriving, but there is little money there. I am referring to perhaps the next level up, where people are trying to make a living from music and it really is simple economics.

So, a band tries to make a name for themselves and break-out into the mainstream, desperate to give up the day job and do music-making full time. Following a modern template, they make promotional albums out of their own money, use youtube and myspace to build up a fanbase, make available a handful of free downloads and eventually get the interst of a record producer, who signs them to a small label and agrees to get them a hit album....

Now, this is where the story could go in different directions:
1) The album is a minor success - it rides high in the indie charts and early sales means the producer puts more money into advertising and publicity, commisions a second album and this time hits the mainstream. More sales leads to a tour which takes in small venues around the country. Following a raised profile they start a second tour supporting a "Massive Band" playing arenas and some choice international venues.. blah blah blah and it is not long until band achieves world domination.

2) The first album is pirated by everyone. No-one buys it legally and so the record is a outstanding flop. The band is instantly dropped by the label and the band slips back into relative obscurity. With no money and rising bills the lead singer commits suicide and the world laments what could have been had User 456228 and all those many others not been so selfish.

Ok, so perhaps that is an oversimplification, but my point was that bands need the income from record sales to start out. The underground movements are propped up by enthusiasts who are not making a living out of the music making and so therefore can be creative without the need to make it commercially viable - but in the long term, many creative sorts will go elsewhere because everyone needs to pay the bills. Good music will be the loser in the long term.

Another good example of this is in the computer game industry - with the best game developers going bust and rising costs of game production, the only games soon to be left being made are yet more expansion packs for The Sims and EA's seemingly fortnightly reissue of FIFA for £50 a pop. Where are developers like Looking Glass or Ion Storm now?

Originally posted by Hindstein
Ok, so perhaps that is an oversimplification, but my point was that bands need the income from record sales to start out. The underground movements are propped up by enthusiasts who are not making a living out of the music making and so therefore can be creative without the need to make it commercially viable - but in the long term, many creative sorts wi ...[text shortened]... sewhere because everyone needs to pay the bills. Good music will be the loser in the long term.

Why? Why is it assumed that this imaginary record sales income is a make or break things for artists? Why is it assumed that record sales = money for the artists? Why does everyone seem to think that a record producer or major record company is necessary to pay the bills? Why do people have the mindset that to be successful you must be commercially viable?

Here is a brilliant article written by the legendary Steve Albini:

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

There are many ways, if you are an artist with "integrity" (for the lack of a better word) to maintain your career without the hassle of dealing with major record companies who reap the rewards of the artist's hard work.

Respected artists, who may not sell many records at Virgin Megastore, are always sought out now to score films, commercials and TV shows. Respected artists always have packed shows with in-tune kids (the majority of whom choose to spend their money on stuff other than CDs) wherever they go. And respected artists know how to package their art/product without the help of some exec from some meddling record company.

My grand point in all of this is that, if you are talented and you take care of your art, you have as much a chance at long term success, doing things on your own terms with your own resources then relying on some recording contract and clinging to the dream of mainstream record sales, impacted or not by heavy downloading.

Maybe I believe this because I've seen it endlessly among friends and colleagues of the Toronto music scene. Pining for mainstream attention can get you a roller-coaster of a couple of months, as Albini described, but eventually where will you end up? Likely no better or worse than the less commercially viable band who has garnered a more faithful following without the help of commercial CD sales.

I haven't even gotten into the long discussion of how the CD is dying and being replaced by the mp3 and, if you can believe it, the vinyl LP!

Sorry this post is so meandering... it's a good discussion. One I always enjoy having. 🙂


EDIT - By the way, I am speaking from personal experience having been a musician in the Toronto scene for the past many years.

Originally posted by darvlay
Why? Why is it assumed that this imaginary record sales income is a make or break things for artists? Why is it assumed that record sales = money for the artists? Why does everyone seem to think that a record producer or major record company is necessary to pay the bills? Why do people have the mindset that to be successful you must be commercially viabl m personal experience having been a musician in the Toronto scene for the past many years.

The difference is that in a world without piracy, artists who wanted to have their products available for free downloads could still do it.

Originally posted by Palynka
The difference is that in a world without piracy, artists who wanted to have their products available for free downloads could still do it.

There is no world without piracy. There never has been since the invention of the cassette tape.

Sorry, I don't think I understand your point - "the difference is that..." - the difference between what and what?

Originally posted by darvlay
There is no world without piracy. There never has been since the invention of the cassette tape.

That's irrelevant to the point. The point is that piracy makes artists worse off.

- For those that don't want their songs/albums to be downloaded for free: obvious.

- For those that want or don't care: they'll gain less by offering free downloads because free downloads would be more common and so the simple fact that their music is free will not be such a big factor in attracting new listeners.

Edit - The difference between one with rampant piracy and one without it. Sorry for not being clear. I was addressing you, but not necessarily the specific post I've quoted.

Edit 1234234 - But I agree with you that it wouldn't be the end of music or any such apocalyptic scenario. I just think it does make artists worse off.