Originally posted by CribsNo because God Holy Spirit was on Moses Guiding Him. Just like when Christians witness it is not realy them it is the Holy spirit that gives them the words to say.
Well, I don't exactly follow your argument, but I suppose
it wouldn't hurt anything if I took your word for it.
But does that mean that when Moses read the Ten Commandments
to the people, he could have gotten them wrong?
Cribs
Someone asked me about if God placed Hitler and Stalion and all thoughs other horrable leaders but I forgot who posted it and what the debate title was but yes God is in Control and he puts everyone everywhere. But you are just as sinful as these people in the eyes of God and remember God saves everyone so these Guys could have called out to God if they had chosen to. God place you to be a desk worker lets say you could kill people to like these guy. Jesus even said that hate is just the same as murder.
1 edit
Originally posted by CribsYes you are, Cribs !
I thought the Holy Spirit was strictly a New Testament phenomenon.
Am I mistaken?
Cribs
Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
2 edits
Originally posted by ivanhoeI stand corrected. I thought the Holy Spirit's existence was
Yes you are, Cribs !
Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
somehow connected with Christ's death. Am I the only one
that misunderstood this?
So, Ivan, are you also saying that the Old Testament believers
believed in a "di-une" God, as it were, since the Father and the
Spirit existed then, but no Son yet? I don't believe Jews have
this notion of God, so your notion of the Holy Spirit is one that
I haven't yet encountered.
Perhaps some other Chrisitians could shed light on this.
Cribs
2 edits
Originally posted by CribsGod revealed Himself as the Holy Trinity. He has always been that way, but the revelation took some time .... 🙂
I stand corrected. I thought the Holy Spirit's existence was
somehow connected with Christ's death. Am I the only one
that misunderstood this?
So, Ivan, are you also saying that the Old Testament believers
believed in a "di-une" G ...[text shortened]...
Perhaps some other Chrisitians could shed light on this.
Cribs
Another quote: Genesis 18, 1-3 :
Gen.18
[1] And the LORD (!! IvanH) appeared unto him (Abraham. IvanH) in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
[2] And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three (!! IvanH) men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
[3] And said, My Lord ( !! IvanH) , if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
[4] Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
...... Abraham greets one, the "Lord" and sees three .... The Holy Trinity in the Old Testament !
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Originally posted by ivanhoeDo Jews believe in the Holy Trinity, and that the Son
God revealed Himself as the Holy Trinity. He has always been that way, but the revelation took some time .... 🙂
just hasn't been born yet? From what I understand, they
don't. And since Jews believe strongly in the Old Testament,
and they don't believe in the Holy Trinity, your explanation
is suspect. I'm not saying you're wrong, but your idea of
the Holy Spirit existing in Genesis really is new to me, and
doesn't seem to fit quite right with my knowledge of the doctrines
of Christianity or Judaism.
Cribs
This is basically the correct translation into english but there is a minor difference because of the translation but it is a very interesting and also revealing of MAJOR problem with translating a text with the "importance" of the bible.
Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
A more proper english translation of Genesis 1:1 would be - In the beginning of god's creating the heavens and the earth.
Note the glaring difference? The usual Englih translation says created - PAST TENSE.
The Hebrew AND the translation I put forth do not use PAST TENSE.
I really wonder why this is? Could it be that there are other translation errors in the bible? Does christianity only work if the old testament god is PAST TENSE? I thought god was the same god in the old and new testament?
Feivel
Originally posted by CribsIf you want to know what a Jew believes shouldn't you be asking a Jew? I mean wouldn't it be "innacurate" of me to ask RBHILL what a pimp believes or ask Billy Graham what a Buddhist believes?
Do Jews believe in the Holy Trinity, and that the Son
just hasn't been born yet? From what I understand, they
don't. And since Jews believe strongly in the Old Testament,
and they don't believe in the Holy Trinity, your explanation
is suspect. I'm not saying you're wrong, but your idea of
the Holy Spirit existing in Genesis really is new to me, an ...[text shortened]... seem to fit quite right with my knowledge of the doctrines
of Christianity or Judaism.
Cribs
Feivel
Originally posted by CribsThe Jews in old testament times were fiercely monotheistic. They still are today. His statement is mistaken. The spirit being a separate being (or entity) is an entirely foreign and ludicrous concept that couldn't be further from the Jewish way of thought.
ISo, Ivan, are you also saying that the Old Testament believers
believed in a "di-une" God, as it were, since the Father and the
Spirit existed then, but no Son yet? I don't believe Jews have
this notion of God, so your notion of the Holy Spirit is one that
I haven't yet encountered.
Feivel
PS Spellchecker I installed in FireFox saved my butt 🙂
2 edits
Originally posted by FeivelFeivel: "A more proper english translation of Genesis 1:1 would be - In the beginning of god's creating the heavens and the earth."
This is basically the correct translation into english but there is a minor difference because of the translation but it is a very interesting and also revealing of MAJOR problem with translating a text with the "importance" of the bible. ...[text shortened]... ought god was the same god in the old and new testament?
Feivel
I like that translation !
By the way Cribs. I made an edit. Please read it.
Originally posted by FeivelFrom what little I know of Hebrew, I don't see how anybody can
This is basically the correct translation into english but there is a minor difference because of the translation but it is a very interesting and also revealing of MAJOR problem with translating a text with the "importance" of the bible.
A more proper english translation of Genesis 1:1 would be - In the beginning of god's [b]creating the heavens an ...[text shortened]... tament god is PAST TENSE? I thought god was the same god in the old and new testament?
Feivel[/b]
take a literal view of an English translation of the Bible. The
languages are so different that a thought that is expressed literally
in Hebrew could not possibly have a literal English translation
that can also be interpreted literally. How many literal readers
of the Bible know that classical Hebrew doesn't even have a notion
of "sentences" and has very little punctuation at all. With no pronouns,
articles, or other parts of speech and sentence structure key to English,
not to mention an archaic vocabulary, a literal interpretion of a modern
English translation is very hard to justify in my opinion.
Cribs
Originally posted by FeivelThat's what I thought, too. Maybe some other Christians can
The Jews in old testament times were fiercely monotheistic. They still are today. His statement is mistaken. The spirit being a separate being (or entity) is an entirely foreign and ludicrous concept that couldn't be further from the Jewish way of thought.
weigh in on this matter.
Cribs